Re: Game over-It's time to out all the stiffs
First off, I'll say that I was shocked to read this thread last night/today, for reasons I'll mention below. I'd also say I hope some can reserve their judgment until after they hear all the details, but to be honest, I don't really care.
To be blunt, I got raped this Fall gambling-wise. No question about it. And like many before me and many to come, I lost my self-control and bet over my means. And, predictably, that didn't work out so well. As a result, I owe a few people a significant amount of money.
To see Terry post what he did came as a surprise to me because of not only our history, but our amicable communication. To recap:
- When I played through Terry at JBN in 2007-early 2008, I sent him no less than $20,000. There were no headaches or payment plans. I think of all the times I had to send him money, only once did I not send the full amount, but instead sent half and the other half two weeks later.
- After his relationship with JBN ended, he then set me up at betkill a few months later. Although he mislead me into believing that it was a credit shop for BetCatalina, I still played because the bookie he worked for was someone whose credibility was vouched for by another party.
- The first time I was asked to pay, I did so, sending approximately $4,000.
- Once I had completely crapped out everywhere and was flat broke, I communicated to Terry that I was in dire straits, but that I had a job lined up that post-graduation which would commence in late December 2008, and that once I started working I'd be able to send him something regularly.
At no time during our communication did Terry sound upset, frustrated, impatient, or aggravated (although it's now clear that he was).
- Three days ago, I contacted Terry letting him know that I'd be able to send him $200 on Monday and on a regular basis from here on out, as I had started my job and started receiving paychecks. I also mentioned that if his bookie wanted to settle for less, that there was a possibility of acquiring a loan at a terrible interest rate that wouldn't be financially feasible to me, but that if his bookie wanted as much cash as possible right now, I could eat the rate and get him his money if he wanted to cut the figure. I also made it clear that I didn't expect any sort of deal to be cut, and if that was the case that it was no matter, as I'd be sending $200 regularly no matter what.
Again, Terry displayed no sense of frustration or anger.
Those reasons are why I was surprised that Terry called me a stiff. My history of payment, recent communication of payment, and generally amicable relationship made this thread a big shock to me. Those reasons are also why, expectedly, Terry backtracked from his original statement, not lumping me in the same group as the others who have outright stiffed him. Still, the timing was peculiar.
For what it's worth, I do understand Terry's frustration. I work for an agent and have set up what sounds like far more players from the forums who have outright stiffed than he has, and the feeling is sickening. So I understand him wanting to get everything off his chest; I've felt the same way before. But unlike Terry, I also realize that calling someone out on the forums is the kiss of death in terms of receiving payment, and I don't want to give up on all those players just yet, even if they've fallen out of touch and don't return calls or e-mails.
Outside of Terry, I owe others money as well. With each person I owe, I have maintained regular communication and set up payment plans with each. I explained to each party that I was simply tapped out and lost control and was ashamed, but that upon graduation I'd be starting a job that would allow me to start paying as early as January. All parties were understanding and, while I'm sure they were frustrated, annoyed, and maybe even furious, all were willing to work with me. As is the nature of the business, you take what you can get as opposed to nothing.
As of today, 1/18, I have sent out $600 in the month of January, with $200 scheduled to be sent out this coming week.
It is because of these reasons that I do not consider myself a stiff. To recap:
- I have been in touch with all partied owed, never falling out of contact.
- I have been honest and open about my shortcomings with all parties owed.
- I haven't disappeared or not returned calls/e-mails
- I set up payment plans instead of giving any party the run-around
- I ceased gambling until all debts are paid off in full
I consider these reasons why I distinguish myself from those like MadCapper and 5 star bomb, posters who, while in debt, continued to post while not maintaining communication with those they owed, and in 5 star bomb's case, even boasted about NOT saving money or sacrificing personal spending in order to pay in a timely fashion.
If anyone thinks those reasons do not distinguish me from a stiff and I'm just as bad as ClipJoint or even 5 star bomb, fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, and I understand your point of view.
As for why I ceased posting, it wasn't because I was in debt and in hiding, as you seem to believe. If that was the case, why would I maintain contact with those I owe? There are a variety of reasons I ceased posting, not the least of which is the fact that I think it's a slap in the face to continue posting while in debt to someone on the forums. Again, having set up players from online who have ended up stiffing or slow-paying yet continue to post, I know how infuriating it is to know that someone is posting a ton when they should be out making some money or doing something to earn money instead of bullshitting with people on the forums. Like I said, there are numerous reasons why I stopped posting, but respecting those who I owe is high on that list. If anyone on the Rx thinks that's B.S., all they must do is look at my posting history in the past year or so. It has been practically non-existent well prior to my financial problems. But
As far as what OSUCOWBOYS is referring to, the entire debt that was run up on a Pinnacle account that my brother and I shared is mine, not my brother's. OSU and others can choose to believe what they want, though, but believe me, I'd rather not be responsible for all that debt, so admitting that it's mine does me nor my brother any favors. As for the IP address, we were provided with a proxy IP address to use when placing our wagers, which is why all bets were made under the same IP address. It is disappointing that those I've been dealing with have chosen to divulge personal information, though. But I guess people don't owe me any favors, so oh well. I will certainly voice my displeasure to those individuals, though. Not that it matters.
As I intimated to the parties with whom I owe a debt, I am deeply ashamed for what I allowed to happen. I lost control and before I knew it, my life was in a shambles. But I was upfront and honest about my situation with each party, told them about my post-graduation plans, and have started paying off said parties in January, as I promised I would do once I started working. In fact, the only miscommunication I've had since this mess started was when someone I owed thought I'd be sending $200 right away and not when I started my job. When he explained to me that he was under a different assumption than I was, I borrowed from friends in order to send him $200 immediately. So I'm doing my part, the best I can, to get everyone paid. For what it's worth, I've also sought out personal loans in order to get people more money and faster, but it has been a futile effort thus far. This economy sure as shit doesn't help. But I will continue to pursue all avenues available to me, and at WORST send something to each party each month as planned. I haven't disappeared and I won't. Whether that means anything to any of you is immaterial; I hope it means something to those I owe.
If anyone has any questions or concerns or would like to tell me what a piece of shit I am, you can feel free to contact me via e-mail. My address is . I have nothing to hide, and those who know me personally know I'll always be honest and open with them. I will not be posting in this thread or any others. But it's needless to say that I'll continue to be in contact and send money on a regular basis to those I'm indebted to, as I've done ever since I started playing on credit. I'll also be in touch with Terry, as I'm no longer sure what he expects of me since he has apparently "thrown in the towel" in regard to collecting from anyone who owes him. If he wants to get paid, he'll get paid. If he gives up, so be it; I'm not going to beg him to take my money, especially after this debacle.
Those who want to continue to bash and rip me apart are free to do so, of course, and will get no resistance from me. So knock yourself out, OSU and TonyMar and whoever else; I've said my piece and as I mentioned before, anyone can contact me off the forum if they feel the need.
Words cannot express the guilt, disappointment, and general sickness I feel everyday for betraying the trust of those who stuck their neck out for me, especially those who I consider friends. It doesn't matter, I know, but I do feel that it is at least necessary to stress that fact, to stress my remorse, instead of saying "fuck it" and being apathetic about it as those like 5 star bomb and others who currently owe me have done in the past. I hope that others can learn from my mistakes.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend and good luck to everyone on their wagers. And I apologize in advance for the length of this post, as I know many posters don't have the patience to read a post as long as this one.
Oh, and no, I will not divulge the names of posters who are currently stiffing/slow-paying me or the guy I work for, nor will I divulge them off the forum, so please do not ask. Thank you.
And please don't post in this thread asking me questions, as I won't be checking in on or responding in this thread, nor will I be checking PMs. You have my e-mail address and can ask anything you want there. Thanks.