Anyone place this type of sports wager?

BSims

EOG Addicted
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

Let's make it real simple.

The books know what 1.5 runs is worth, and have done a ton more work on establishing what it is worth than you have.

Santo,

I have no idea how much a ton of work is. So I don't know how much the books know about the worth of 1.5 runs. I can only assume you have some detailed knowledge about the effort they have made.

I do know how much effort I have put into the issue, but no one else does. So comparing our efforts is actually impossible.

The assumption that the books know more than their customers is common. In fact, the normal arguement I hear is they know so much more about what is going to happen than I, that I am foolish for wagering with them.

They may very well have a better sense of the potential outcome of a game. But they move the lines based on the customers perceptions and actions. They are not interested in gambling, but rather balancing the books. So their knowledge and feelings aren't that relevent.

If in fact, they know exactly the relationship between the money line and run line and acted accordingly, one would expect these lines to move together. I've not studied the movement, but took a look at one example from today.

In this case it was the Cincinnati-StLouis game. I know what lines were available about 9AM, then about 10:30 when Lawrence posted them on this board for the WSEX contest, and finally right before game time. Following are those lines;

Early Cincinnati +128 StLouis-1.5 +165
Morning Cincinnati +131 StLouis-1.5 +155
Late Cincinnati +127 StLouis-1.5 +150

Here we see small movement back and forth in the money line. But the run line moved much more and only in one direction. This type of independent movement says to me that the books don't have a rule about the relationship of the money line and run line. This type of movement also says to me that opportunities do exist.

Just my opinion.
 

jimmycrackcorn

EOG Senior Member
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

*Updated 4/24*

Since April 19th here is the ones I have played and the record thus far.

Date Teams W/L

4/19 White Sox/Rangers W
4/20 Mariners/Angels W
4/21 Washington/Florida W
4/22 Brewers/Cubs W
4/24 Brewers/Cubs W
4/24 SF/LA Dodgers W
:party
 

munson15

I want winners...
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

Santo,

I have no idea how much a ton of work is. So I don't know how much the books know about the worth of 1.5 runs. I can only assume you have some detailed knowledge about the effort they have made.

I do know how much effort I have put into the issue, but no one else does. So comparing our efforts is actually impossible.

The assumption that the books know more than their customers is common. In fact, the normal arguement I hear is they know so much more about what is going to happen than I, that I am foolish for wagering with them.

They may very well have a better sense of the potential outcome of a game. But they move the lines based on the customers perceptions and actions. They are not interested in gambling, but rather balancing the books. So their knowledge and feelings aren't that relevent.

If in fact, they know exactly the relationship between the money line and run line and acted accordingly, one would expect these lines to move together. I've not studied the movement, but took a look at one example from today.

In this case it was the Cincinnati-StLouis game. I know what lines were available about 9AM, then about 10:30 when Lawrence posted them on this board for the WSEX contest, and finally right before game time. Following are those lines;

Early Cincinnati +128 StLouis-1.5 +165
Morning Cincinnati +131 StLouis-1.5 +155
Late Cincinnati +127 StLouis-1.5 +150

Here we see small movement back and forth in the money line. But the run line moved much more and only in one direction. This type of independent movement says to me that the books don't have a rule about the relationship of the money line and run line. This type of movement also says to me that opportunities do exist.

Just my opinion.

Nice, well thought out post, Bsims.:cheers
 

munson15

I want winners...
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

*Updated 4/24*

Since April 19th here is the ones I have played and the record thus far.

Date Teams W/L

4/19 White Sox/Rangers W
4/20 Mariners/Angels W
4/21 Washington/Florida W
4/22 Brewers/Cubs W
4/24 Brewers/Cubs W
4/24 SF/LA Dodgers W
:party

JCC, nice work!:cheers Rode that 6-0 train w/ you last night on both games, + $94, which made a positive night out of a slight loss. Say hi to the missus!:D
 

munson15

I want winners...
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

I took another look at the Cubs Milwaukee game. It does show that one could expect a positive return at Milwaukee+146 and Cubs-1.5 +140.

I didn't take these numbers because the expected return was below my normal cutoff.
I actually played these at mil +149 and CHC -1.5 +146.
 

munson15

I want winners...
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

Munson,

Using the system I developed last season, there were two picks tonight;
Cinncy+128 StLouis-1.5 +165
Detroit-1.5+155 LA Angels +102

There was a middle for a bit;

NY Yankees -158 and Tampa Bay+1.5 +103
(But, I couldn't get these where I had funds.)

This is going back to the idea of trying to hit a pure middle on the nyy-TB game, right? Now in the cin-STL example, I'm thinking that 28 (cin) and 65 (STL) equals 93 and maybe this is just as good as the mil-CHC game if you average out the bets? JCC, can you tell me what you think of this?

Now Bsims, on the det-LAA game, I only see 57 dollars to play w/ on the + side and wouldn't think this works as well. But I guess that would account for the fact that det is on the road and gets the extra potential atbat in the 9th? Just wondering. Thanks JCC for letting me invade your thread to talk about this.:cheers
 

jimmycrackcorn

EOG Senior Member
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

Well, If I understand it correctly...the problem lies with the issue of the lesser bet. If you won the side with the small payout more frequently than the larger payout, you will eventually lose money because when you lose both bets now it drags your total profit over the long haul down below profitable levels...I think you have to have that guaranteed payout @+135 to +140 for each win in order to make up for the losses you will eventually have...I hope that makes sense. JCC
 

Santo

EOG Veteran
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

I agree there may be situations where there's a profitable middle, likely resulting from books not adjusting (or receiving) their action on both simultaneously.

I would argue you need to be market-watching to do this profitably, not taking a snapshot.
 

BSims

EOG Addicted
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

JCC - you are correct, the Detroit-LA Angels is an extreme example with the dog in this case only getting +102 getting very little if they are the winning side. In these cases I adjust and put 2 units on Detroit-1.5 and 2.5 units on LA Angels.

I suspect a better strategy would be similar to something you mentioned earlier. That would be adjust the units risked so as to guarantee the same results. I haven't yet analyzed this because it is more complex, but have it on the list of things to do.

Munson - You are also correct in noting the smaller potential returns for the Detroit-LA Angels game is acceptable because the road team was the favorite and hence giving the 1.5 runs. The probability of the road team winning by exactly 1 run is about two-thirds the probability that the home team wins by exactly 1 run.

Santo - You are correct in that market-watching would lead to a much better return. I used to do a lot more market-watching several years back when I was scalping money lines. But the wide spread use of Don Best made this less profitable. Plus, I have other interests in life, so I just rely on using the snapshot approach.

Today for instance, I found a couple of small return opportunities this morning that have subsequently disappeared. I'll probably look again in a few hours before I head to Wednesday night out with the boys. (A few decades ago these amounted to pizza, beer, golf trip planning and talking about women. Now, the pizza and beer are still there, but the golf trip planning has been replaced by reliving golf trips. Finally the discussions about women have been replaced by medical condition discussions. Now that's depressing.)
 

jimmycrackcorn

EOG Senior Member
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

Hopefully there will be more games tomorrow that fit the wager model. I appreciate the input from everybody on this. So far we are on a 6-0 roll. JCC
 

munson15

I want winners...
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

Don't push it, Jimmy. Whatever's working, wait for it to happen. I'll try to keep up from here on.:cheers
 

jimmycrackcorn

EOG Senior Member
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

Yeah, but I am passing on the Texas Cleveland game. I cannot get the odds quite up to the wager model limits here on my end. KC and Minn are a go though. I am keeping my wagers relatively low due to the fact that we are due a loss soon.Good Luck! JCC
 

Woody

EOG Veteran
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

Hopefully there will be more games tomorrow that fit the wager model.

For Friday look for CIN/PIT; MIL/HOU; MIN/DET and TBD/OAK.

Also if its an opinionless system I would adjust units to equalize return on either winning outcome.
 

Woody

EOG Veteran
Re: Anyone place this type of sports wager?

4/27 Reds/Pirates W
4/27 Twins/Tigers W
4/27 Brewers/Astros W

4/27 Devil Rays/Athletics No play
 
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