TEASERS

BFC "Mikey"

EOG Enthusiast
This is (to me) a very very easy gambling---101 Test question, but curious how many people will get the proper answer & how fast. I`m positive people like J.K. & several other`s know the correct answer, but curious how many of the rest of you know why betting Teasers is a bad proposition. And to further elaborate, I`m not referring to the Ties Lose, The Vig/juice, the fact that you have to have multiple teams WIN in order to cash your ticket. There is something else that makes teasers (for the most part) a very bad wagering Proposition.

Feel free to guess at the answer I am looking for . . . .
 
Re: TEASERS

Right of the bat I can tell you they are even less profitable in todays market than they were years ago just because of all the scoring. Makes your 6 points even less valuable.
 

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
Re: TEASERS

This is (to me) a very very easy gambling---101 Test question, but curious how many people will get the proper answer & how fast. I`m positive people like J.K. & several other`s know the correct answer, but curious how many of the rest of you know why betting Teasers is a bad proposition. And to further elaborate, I`m not referring to the Ties Lose, The Vig/juice, the fact that you have to have multiple teams WIN in order to cash your ticket. There is something else that makes teasers (for the most part) a very bad wagering Proposition.

Feel free to guess at the answer I am looking for . . . .

If your looking for the answer that being successful with them will put you on the radar, I'd argue that point.
 

BFC "Mikey"

EOG Enthusiast
Re: TEASERS

Im looking for a very logical answer as to WHY they are Bad, but my answer has ZERO to due with the VIG, The multiple teams, OR anything like that. There is another reason why say a 6 or 6.5 point TWO TEAM Teaser is a very bad wager to make. Keep guessing, then Ill provide hints or the answer I am seeking. I`m positive you guys know the answer Im searching for, just think about it & think what they Pay. That last statement should give it away.
 

BFC "Mikey"

EOG Enthusiast
Re: TEASERS

A high percentage of the time a teaser will be better off just played as a parlay.

we have a winner, very very very often I see guys showing me $2500 Teaser Ticket winner & happy as HELL, I glance at the Ticket & for Example they had ST L +20 and KC +10 last night & say Look I just won $2500 Im Like PARD had you played this as a 2 Teamer you could have won as much as 2.6 OR 2.8 that amount (**Yes U can get 2.8 on 2 Teamers These days **)

but the answer I was seeking is way too frequently the 6 points do NOT come into play, yet the lessen the payout substantially folks!
 

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
Re: TEASERS

we have a winner, very very very often I see guys showing me $2500 Teaser Ticket winner & happy as HELL, I glance at the Ticket & for Example they had ST L +20 and KC +10 last night & say Look I just won $2500 Im Like PARD had you played this as a 2 Teamer you could have won as much as 2.6 OR 2.8 that amount (**Yes U can get 2.8 on 2 Teamers These days **)

but the answer I was seeking is way too frequently the 6 points do NOT come into play, yet the lessen the payout substantially folks!

I was hoping this wasn't the answer you were looking for. Can you quantify "way too frequently" please?
 

BFC "Mikey"

EOG Enthusiast
Re: TEASERS

great question 2W2P2S & to be completely honest, NO I can not give you precise stats but feel it`s frequently enough to NOT justify the High Vig VS the 2.6 OR like I said even 2.8---1 payoff should you HIT the Parlay.

Now, let me take it one step further, BY NO MEANS am I stating betting 2 team Parlay is + EVEN prop. but I am stating that Mathematically I prefer 2.8-1 PAR vs 6 6.5 OR 7 pt. teaser ALL DAY LONG.

hope that makes sense . . . . . .
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: TEASERS

This is (to me) a very very easy gambling---101 Test question, but curious how many people will get the proper answer & how fast. I`m positive people like J.K. & several other`s know the correct answer, but curious how many of the rest of you know why betting Teasers is a bad proposition. And to further elaborate, I`m not referring to the Ties Lose, The Vig/juice, the fact that you have to have multiple teams WIN in order to cash your ticket. There is something else that makes teasers (for the most part) a very bad wagering Proposition.

Feel free to guess at the answer I am looking for . . . .



if nfl teasers are such bad propositions, why does the sharpest offshore book in the game often adjust their nfl lines specifically for teaser protection?
 

BFC "Mikey"

EOG Enthusiast
Re: TEASERS

if nfl teasers are such bad propositions, why does the sharpest offshore book in the game often adjust their nfl lines specifically for teaser protection?

Very SImple, to GAIN that much more of an Edge my man. I think I have little knowledge on NFL Teaser Hold % and trust me its higher than the measley 4.25% straight bet hold %.
 

munson15

I want winners...
Re: TEASERS

Wong teasers may be a separate category, Pipe. That seems to be the only protection they seek.
 
Re: TEASERS

I would agree with Mikey except in certain situations. They are few and far between now but in the days of totals being in low the 30s and able to push the # through 2 key #'s (3,7,10 and even 14 but never cross the zero) teasers were showing a profit.

I remember one particular big year for me was the year after the Ravens won the Superbowl the spreads were ridiculous to begin with but getting the extra 6 points and getting the other team +8 +12 +14 was money in the bank. Sometimes if you got a fg out for team you were good to go.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: TEASERS

I remember betting and consistently winning two-team, six-point teasers at even-money more than 20 years ago at the Gold Coast Sports Book in Las Vegas.

To which bookmaker Bert Osborne once said in disgust, "C'mon Kelly, make a real bet."

Here's one tricky problem associated with NFL teaser action: no straight bet off the board ever looks good again at odds of 11-10. You get accustomed to that six-point crutch.

Thanks for starting the thread, Mikey.
 

trytrytry

All I do is trytrytry
Re: TEASERS

we have a winner, very very very often I see guys showing me $2500 Teaser Ticket winner & happy as HELL, I glance at the Ticket & for Example they had ST L +20 and KC +10 last night & say Look I just won $2500 Im Like PARD had you played this as a 2 Teamer you could have won as much as 2.6 OR 2.8 that amount (**Yes U can get 2.8 on 2 Teamers These days **)

but the answer I was seeking is way too frequently the 6 points do NOT come into play, yet the lessen the payout substantially folks!

:LMAO
 

Tim Patterson

EOG Dedicated
Re: TEASERS

Here's one tricky problem associated with NFL teaser action: no straight bet off the board ever looks good again at odds of 11-10. You get accustomed to that six-point crutch.

.

Almost exactly word for word what the famous Jimmy Vacarro had said on your old "Leroy's radio show" when the two of you talked daily about the gamble. "Ah, the good old days".
 

BFC "Mikey"

EOG Enthusiast
Re: TEASERS

I remember betting and consistently winning two-team, six-point teasers at even-money more than 20 years ago at the Gold Coast Sports Book in Las Vegas.

To which bookmaker Bert Osborne once said in disgust, "C'mon Kelly, make a real bet."

Here's one tricky problem associated with NFL teaser action: no straight bet off the board ever looks good again at odds of 11-10. You get accustomed to that six-point crutch.

Thanks for starting the thread, Mikey.


goldcoast actually cut me off from betting basketball TOTALS, use to love that spot way in the Back. Those were the days my man. I was Just a Kid, but was getting some great info on Hoop Totals and they wanted NO PART OF IT J.K.
 

BFC "Mikey"

EOG Enthusiast
Re: TEASERS

Almost exactly word for word what the famous Jimmy Vacarro had said on your old "Leroy's radio show" when the two of you talked daily about the gamble. "Ah, the good old days".

Ask JIMMY V about the crew at the Atlantis in Bahamas (Sportsbook crew) That is as he knows them very well and has helped me out ALOT over the years. I knew JIMMY V back when he was at Mirage when it was the hottest resort on planet Earth back in 1990--91. & yes, Those were Def. The Days Brother.
 

DJDalamar

EOG Dedicated
Re: TEASERS

Seems every week someone tells me I'll lose money making teaser bets. And every week I just keep cashing them.

I'm not great at math, but I know through Leroy's my 7 point 3 team teasers get me better then even money, and a lot more cash then don't.
 
Re: TEASERS

If you are saying not to bet teasers Mike then you shouldn't bet parlays either. Technically you should probably make straight bets for a larger sum then betting teasers and parlays. Either way you need two to win 1. BTW my teasers have been doing very well this year. NFL sides only. GL Mike I do get what you are trying to point out.
 

DJDalamar

EOG Dedicated
Re: TEASERS

I just looked for every 5.00 I bet I get 7.00 back. What is that like +145? And I move the line 6 points. If I moved it 7 I think I would have gotten 6.00 for every 5 I bet. Call me square all you want but that's a good deal to me.


Now to be fair this week I would have gotten paid on a parlay as I had KC, Philly and Buffalo. But none of those were guaranteed covers especially with something crazy happening every weekend.
 

msftkid

EOG Addicted
Re: TEASERS

I am not a math guy however you get to move each team 6 points . With a 2 team teaser thats a total of 12 points Each point is worth 20 cents or a total of $2.40 for the teaser. Its 4to 1 to win two games so obiously 1.60 0f juice built in. I acknowledge this is a simple explanation and some numbers are worth more than 20 cents. 3 7 10 14 etc....
 

$tinky

EOG Senior Member
Re: TEASERS

this is just as stupid as the guys who say, "why line shop? most of the time the line does not even come into play."

just a stupid ass argument
 

bernardoincr

EOG Dedicated
Re: TEASERS

betting and winning one team is 11-10 or .91
betting 2 team teaser is .91 x .91 =.8281
but payout same as for onr winner
chances less but payout not more
does this make sense?? help me math guys.
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: TEASERS

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]To calculate if a teaser is +EV or not, you need to determine if the amount you are capturing in the push rates you are teasing across makes up for the extra juice you are paying. You can do this by taking

P = probability of winning a single leg
N = number of teams in your teaser
O = the payout odds for the overall teaser (i.e. +300 = 3, +100 = 1, -110 = 10/11)

(P^N) x O = (1 - P^N) which you can reconfigure to P = (1 / O+1) ^ (1/N). It's kind of awkward typing in exponents and such on a computer, it's not nearly as complicated as it looks when you write it out.

For a 2 team, 6 point teaser at +100 you would do:
P = (1/odds you are being given + 1) ^ (1/number of teams)
P = (1/1+1)^(1/2) = square root of (.5) = .707 = 70.7%.

For a Wong Teaser (through 3 and 7) at -110, it's:
P = 1/ [(10/11)+1] ^ (1/2)
P = .723 = 72.3%

So what the means is your breakeven point on each
[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]leg[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] of the teaser (with payout odds of -110) is [/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]72.3%[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]. Assuming the NFL is an efficient market (each spread is a 50-50 proposition), that means you need to capture an extra 22.3% in the teaser to break even. Depending on what push frequencies you are using (and whether it's you're starting at 1.5, 2, 2.5 or 8.5, 8, 7.5) you're capturing about 24% with the 6 points. As you can see, they are still profitable at -110 (1.7% edge vs. 3.3% edge at +100).

In order to make money, you need to find the 6-point ranges that will cover more than 72.3% of the time (assume a 50% vs. the closing line, so the 6-point should capture 22.3%). Of course past data doesn't always guarantee future results, but unless there is some reason - such as rule changes - to expect the scoring distributions in NFL to change, you can fire in some good bets with these.
[/FONT]
 
Re: TEASERS

BFC "Mikey" here's my teaser challenge. I'll make 100 teaser plays between tomorrow and Jan. 5, 2012, 7 points in football and 6 in hoops--all two team teasers at -130 juice. Ties push. Mixed teasers O.K. If I'm plus units after 100 plays you send $100 to Heaven Can Wait animal sanctuary in Las Vegas. If I'm down units I send $100 to charity of your choice. Are you in?

:pop:
 

steak tartar

EOG Dedicated
Re: TEASERS

To calculate if a teaser is +EV or not, you need to determine if the amount you are capturing in the push rates you are teasing across makes up for the extra juice you are paying. You can do this by taking

P = probability of winning a single leg
N = number of teams in your teaser
O = the payout odds for the overall teaser (i.e. +300 = 3, +100 = 1, -110 = 10/11)

(P^N) x O = (1 - P^N) which you can reconfigure to P = (1 / O+1) ^ (1/N). It's kind of awkward typing in exponents and such on a computer, it's not nearly as complicated as it looks when you write it out.

For a 2 team, 6 point teaser at +100 you would do:
P = (1/odds you are being given + 1) ^ (1/number of teams)
P = (1/1+1)^(1/2) = square root of (.5) = .707 = 70.7%.

For a Wong Teaser (through 3 and 7) at -110, it's:
P = 1/ [(10/11)+1] ^ (1/2)
P = .723 = 72.3%

So what the means is your breakeven point on each
leg of the teaser (with payout odds of -110) is 72.3%. Assuming the NFL is an efficient market (each spread is a 50-50 proposition), that means you need to capture an extra 22.3% in the teaser to break even. Depending on what push frequencies you are using (and whether it's you're starting at 1.5, 2, 2.5 or 8.5, 8, 7.5) you're capturing about 24% with the 6 points. As you can see, they are still profitable at -110 (1.7% edge vs. 3.3% edge at +100).

In order to make money, you need to find the 6-point ranges that will cover more than 72.3% of the time (assume a 50% vs. the closing line, so the 6-point should capture 22.3%). Of course past data doesn't always guarantee future results, but unless there is some reason - such as rule changes - to expect the scoring distributions in NFL to change, you can fire in some good bets with these.

please dont clutter up threads with facts
 
Re: TEASERS

To calculate if a teaser is +EV or not, you need to determine if the amount you are capturing in the push rates you are teasing across makes up for the extra juice you are paying. You can do this by taking

P = probability of winning a single leg
N = number of teams in your teaser
O = the payout odds for the overall teaser (i.e. +300 = 3, +100 = 1, -110 = 10/11)

(P^N) x O = (1 - P^N) which you can reconfigure to P = (1 / O+1) ^ (1/N). It's kind of awkward typing in exponents and such on a computer, it's not nearly as complicated as it looks when you write it out.

For a 2 team, 6 point teaser at +100 you would do:
P = (1/odds you are being given + 1) ^ (1/number of teams)
P = (1/1+1)^(1/2) = square root of (.5) = .707 = 70.7%.

For a Wong Teaser (through 3 and 7) at -110, it's:
P = 1/ [(10/11)+1] ^ (1/2)
P = .723 = 72.3%

So what the means is your breakeven point on each
leg of the teaser (with payout odds of -110) is 72.3%. Assuming the NFL is an efficient market (each spread is a 50-50 proposition), that means you need to capture an extra 22.3% in the teaser to break even. Depending on what push frequencies you are using (and whether it's you're starting at 1.5, 2, 2.5 or 8.5, 8, 7.5) you're capturing about 24% with the 6 points. As you can see, they are still profitable at -110 (1.7% edge vs. 3.3% edge at +100).

In order to make money, you need to find the 6-point ranges that will cover more than 72.3% of the time (assume a 50% vs. the closing line, so the 6-point should capture 22.3%). Of course past data doesn't always guarantee future results, but unless there is some reason - such as rule changes - to expect the scoring distributions in NFL to change, you can fire in some good bets with these.


Do you take into account game totals? Obviously a game with a 34 point total vs a 54 point total will have different % of times a teaser will cover. I am speaking of teasing the side not the total.
 
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IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: TEASERS

Yeah totals definitely have an effect, but fairly marginal in NFL. You could use logistic regression or some other technique to get a more precise estimate of the push frequency pursuant to the totals. There are even some NCAAF teaser subsets that have historically been profitable with low totals (below 40).
 

Tuckman

Uh Poster
Re: TEASERS

BFC "Mikey" here's my teaser challenge. I'll make 100 teaser plays between tomorrow and Jan. 5, 2012, 7 points in football and 6 in hoops--all two team teasers at -130 juice. Ties push. Mixed teasers O.K. If I'm plus units after 100 plays you send $100 to Heaven Can Wait animal sanctuary in Las Vegas. If I'm down units I send $100 to charity of your choice. Are you in?

:pop:

IM in, i'll take u up on this, GL and get a thread started :cheers
 

High Times

EOG Master
Re: TEASERS

I've made 2, 3, and 4 "6 point teasers" in the NFL for over 30 years.

I have used favorites from 6 to 9 points.

I have never used a total or took points or ever used a NCAA game.

You simply can't lose if you were doing this.

12io4j2w90
 

trytrytry

All I do is trytrytry
Re: TEASERS

I've made 2, 3, and 4 "6 point teasers" in the NFL for over 30 years.

I have used favorites from 6 to 9 points.

I have never used a total or took points or ever used a NCAA game.

You simply can't lose if you were doing this.

12io4j2w90

add a bit of line shopping or a bit of beating the line move and they can be good, quite good.
 
Re: TEASERS

Very SImple, to GAIN that much more of an Edge my man. I think I have little knowledge on NFL Teaser Hold % and trust me its higher than the measley 4.25% straight bet hold %.

Mike- From past experience has the theoretical hold been equal to the actual hold for straight bets?
 
Re: TEASERS

IT made a good post on teasers. Impossible for us to figure out theoretical hold without knowing the numbers crossed.
 
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