Another solution of payouts - players paying players

sean1

EOG Dedicated
So I've been giving this some more thought and it sounds as though the overwhelming issue is that sportsbooks can not process 100s of transactions each day without getting flagged. This means to me that they must be accepting hundreds of deposits and sending out hundreds each day. If you ask sportsbook.com they are sending 1000s of checks!!! This solution obviously would not work for a book sending 1 check/day, but they don't need a solution.

It goes to reason that a legit book is likely getting more $ in deposits than withdrawals.

So why not have players pay players? It goes like this... FIrst you set up specific withdrawal and deposit amounts _ say $100, $250, $500, $1000, $2000, $3000, etc.

When someone requests a withdrawal you tell them it will be fedexed or wired to them within 7 days.

Then if someone wants to make a deposit, you have them fedex it or wire it to a person waiting for a payment. Most payouts would likely happen in a day or two (especially at big books).

If 7 days go by, you fill any payouts that are lacking depositors (Unlikely unless your book is in trouble.

Once a player gets paid, he is asked to check off a form saying he was paid. The other player is then credited.

If the paid player does not check it off, the payer would provide proof of the wire or check to the sportsbook.

The books could establish a feedback system like ebay where players who check off the paid box in minutes get high rankings. As players await payments, they could be listed by ranking, and depositors could select who to send payment to.

There are two headaches:

1. is assholes who would say they were not paid. This can be combatted by bank wire traces, endorsed checks, etc and banning assholes. (The current processing system is not without risk of confiscations).

2. Players would lose some privacy. Players would not need to sign up for this option as their address or wire info would be given to other players, but if they did not choose this option, they could be made aware payouts could take 2 or 4 weeks. Then they could not bitch. I would sign up in a second to get paid in a few days and then I'd get a Mailboxes etc address.

When there are no payouts needed, the player wires to the book for book profits and reserves.
This isn't rocket science. The issue right now is sending money into and out of the US. Why bother...

Sean
 

RealSlimShady

EOG Dedicated
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

A few problems with this system:

1. What incentive is there for a player to facilitate such transactions?

2. Why would a player want to put himself in a position to possibly face serious charges should the Feds ever shut the book down and go after people? I'm sure they would charge the player for aiding/ facilitating gambling and money laundering.
 

Bucsfan67

EOG Master
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

i like the idea, but do not think its feasible at all, actually...
 
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

Your idea is unrealistic and naive.

Ever heard of betbug.com, sean1?
 
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

No offense, sean1, but betbug.com couldn't even get players to bet with other players, much less pay them or moderate them.
 

Bucky

EOG Dedicated
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

I don't think very many players would like to get involved and run the risk of being deemed an agent.

The effort to try to solve the problem is worthwhile but we haven't even got to the point where player funds are guaranteed, bonded, secured, or escrowed in any freaking way. I just don't see the problem of getting money to your favorite sportsbook. Smaller chunks - sure - but it can get done if you have the dough in your pocket and you don't have to worry about sending it away. If you do have to worry about it THEN THAT'S TOO MUCH MONEY THAT YOU SENT!!!!

Some of the problem is the post up system. A lot of money just changes hands and trades places periodically but the fees and costs associated really add up and stresses the system. If there was a way to escrow it with a bonded agent there would not have to be all this BS back and forth over small potatoes.

But, essentially, nobody trusts anybody and post up is required and withdrawals are requested for penny ante sums because there is little trust on the player side and immediate gratification is the only reason for playing any way.

As long as the banking law is what it is there is no way around it. Just under the radar methods. The big players have it figured out - don't worry about them. A player that wants to live by the letter of the law has an impossible situation. Banking has to be under the radar for now. Just have to get used to it.

Small checks, WU's, Moneygrams to an individual for sure - whatever - to collect winnings - but stay UNDER THE RADAR! Wires should be outlawed by sportsbooks - they are a blatant snub of the law. Neteller pushed the envelope - rubbed sand on the arse of the DOJ. Let a sleeping dog lay - anybody that wants to try to establish an over the radar processing system is asking for trouble and creating more problems for the industry.





:bank:
 

sean1

EOG Dedicated
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

Certainly there are some problems here.

Being an agent is not one of them as no one is taking bets or getting any vig which is the key for being in the profession. Privacy is the big problem...

Betbug failed I think because there was nothing to bet on, not lack of people willing. When I checked it out, you could bet like $23 on a game...


Sean
 

The Prophet

EOG Dedicated
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

Certainly there are some problems here.

Being an agent is not one of them as no one is taking bets or getting any vig which is the key for being in the profession. Privacy is the big problem...

Betbug failed I think because there was nothing to bet on, not lack of people willing. When I checked it out, you could bet like $23 on a game...


Sean


"Privacy is the big problem..."


...particularly for those engaged in illicit and/or immoral activities. :smokesmal






.
 

sean1

EOG Dedicated
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

Placing bets is not against US federal law, and the courts have ruled that. If you like, I will get you the case that has never been challenged, or even better, show me a case where a person was tried and lost in federal court for placing bets.
 

The Prophet

EOG Dedicated
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

Placing bets is not against US federal law, and the courts have ruled that. If you like, I will get you the case that has never been challenged, or even better, show me a case where a person was tried and lost in federal court for placing bets.

even better, show me a case where a person was tried and lost in federal court for placing bets.

JC WOULD SURELY BE "BETTOR" AT ANSWERING THIS FOR YOU... :+textinb3





.
 
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

Placing bets is not against US federal law, and the courts have ruled that. If you like, I will get you the case that has never been challenged, or even better, show me a case where a person was tried and lost in federal court for placing bets.

It is a form of money laundering. Participants can go right to jail for about 20 years...... not to mention aiding and abetting the federal crime of illegal gambling and a little mail fraud thrown in for some color.
 

sean1

EOG Dedicated
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

Placing bets is not money laundering and it is not against federal law. The last case on this was in 1981, and the federal courts ruled no matter how much a bettor wagered or how sophisticated he might be, heis not in the business of betting by merely betting and thus is not guilty of a crime. This federal case has never been challenged. IF you think it has, post a link to the case that challenges it.

Dawg or Prophet show me one case where a mere bettor was charged with money laundering. You can't.

Taking bets with a vig as JC did is illegal in most of the US. No one is arguing with that.

Sean
 

sean1

EOG Dedicated
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

The naivity on this board is amazing.

State law can not "relax" federal law. IF it was federally illegal to place a bet, Vegas could not exist.

Morons.

Sean
 

Junior

EOG Veteran
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

Think about it, a player paying another player the FEDS can bust you as an agent if they want to be a prick. You are paying and collecting from gambling. Not anything one wants to get involved with I am sure. Don't think thats a good option. Every sports book should have a transfer card. If they are allowed offshore or Canada why can't they have there own banking or transfer system?
 

sean1

EOG Dedicated
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

They do have their own banking system in other parts of the world. There are hundreds if not thousands of Will HIll, Bet365, etc kiosks in parts of Europe where you can walk in and out and make deposits and wd. I think they even have machines like ATMs.

Problem is books can't have machines in the US.

The collecting could become a problem, although I doubt it if you never charge a vig or take a bet, but anyways, the books better find out a way to fix things soon. Iv'e got 6 + figures I'd like to post up, and have not for almost 2 years. I am not the only one sitting on the sidelines like this. If the books keep losing people who have played for 10+ years, they are in trouble.
 

Trip78

EOG Member
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

How about just a repeal of the UIGEA? Because that is where the momentum is swinging. Tommorrows hearing will be very interesting. Banks want nothing to do with it and they carry a lot of power.
 
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

The naivity on this board is amazing.

State law can not "relax" federal law. IF it was federally illegal to place a bet, Vegas could not exist.

Morons.

Sean

Just like the UK, if you wish to walk up to the counter and place a bet just feel free to frequent one of the many shops that offer this service in Las Vegas. Wagering on line at this period of time without an amendment of or repeal of federal statue is a violation of the Wire Act (1084).

Years ago many of the offshore operations set up their own providers and even played a part in the opening of many offshore banking institutions in many countries that served them so well for many years. Those days are over for now. The DOJ, beginning with such companies as Paypal, Sportingnews, and eventually Neteller found out that there is millions to be made by squeezing, and intimidating the offshore industry.

In years past many in the industry thought that the agressive prosecution by the DOJ was an attempt on their part to protect the racing industry. This has proven to be a fallacy. There are now special interest groups within the U.S. that want to see the offshore industry dry up and disappear so that the big domestic corporations step up to the plate to eventually offer these gambling services legally to U.S. citizens. When this happens in 2009 you will see the DOJ become even more agressive to the renegade offshore operations that remain so they can protect their domestic providers.

Reduced juice, and bonus opportunities will keep many of these offshore shops open, but those operators that carry on the fight might as well renounce their U.S. citizenship, if they haven't already, as it will only get worse. An end to a great era.
 
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players



Home of the free 1/2 point...:houra

Oh Yes! he was one of my favorite stars...let's see....Sal Minio wasn't it? No wait, he better resembles another well-known guy in the wagering industry.....Jack N!
 

Trip78

EOG Member
Re: Another solution of payouts - players paying players

Wagering on line at this period of time without an amendment of or repeal of federal statue is a violation of the Wire Act (1084).

It is not illegal to place the bet. Wire Act has nothing to do with the player.

Neither does the UIGEA.

Some states dont allow it, so it is up to the player to check his/her state laws concerning online gambling.
 
Top