Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
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marlboro8425
EOG Senior Member
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
i dont think its a joke, big mac might never get in, bonds was all-world before he even took steroids, and sosa just plummeted after the roids issue and corked bat. if the people voting have any common sense, sosa and mac out, bonds in. palmiero also out.
i dont think its a joke, big mac might never get in, bonds was all-world before he even took steroids, and sosa just plummeted after the roids issue and corked bat. if the people voting have any common sense, sosa and mac out, bonds in. palmiero also out.
WildBill
2
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
Palmeiro was shown to be as potentially as dirty as McGwire in front of the whole nation, why should he have a better shot? Further you would really say the guy with the fifth most homers in league history and has 3 years of 60 or more shouldn't be in the HOF? You're nuts ID. If we are to really believe anyone suspect of steroids should be kept out lets just shut down the HOF right now. That is an utter joke. McGwire not getting in is as big an insanity as Pete Rose not being in there.
Palmeiro was shown to be as potentially as dirty as McGwire in front of the whole nation, why should he have a better shot? Further you would really say the guy with the fifth most homers in league history and has 3 years of 60 or more shouldn't be in the HOF? You're nuts ID. If we are to really believe anyone suspect of steroids should be kept out lets just shut down the HOF right now. That is an utter joke. McGwire not getting in is as big an insanity as Pete Rose not being in there.
roseman
EOG Dedicated
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
They had an unofficial poll of baseball writers, maybe 100 or so and it was something like 80% against Bonds getting in. This was a year ago, once he breaks the record, this topic will be hot again. Palmeiro will not get in b/c he was found with the stuff....the others will probably get in.
They had an unofficial poll of baseball writers, maybe 100 or so and it was something like 80% against Bonds getting in. This was a year ago, once he breaks the record, this topic will be hot again. Palmeiro will not get in b/c he was found with the stuff....the others will probably get in.
marlboro8425
EOG Senior Member
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
even though the both looked like clowns when they went to that hearing, big mac took a bigger hit in the public eye than palmeiro. i think raffy has a better shot because of his consistency through his career, big mac went through seasons of batting under or close to .200 with like 15 homers until the juice came in and he instantly hitting 500 foot blasts and 60 a year. comparing him to pete rose not getting in is ridiculous though, rose was one of the best players of all time , something big mac is not even close to. i would put rose,canseco and bonds in and leave everyone else out.:smokesmal
even though the both looked like clowns when they went to that hearing, big mac took a bigger hit in the public eye than palmeiro. i think raffy has a better shot because of his consistency through his career, big mac went through seasons of batting under or close to .200 with like 15 homers until the juice came in and he instantly hitting 500 foot blasts and 60 a year. comparing him to pete rose not getting in is ridiculous though, rose was one of the best players of all time , something big mac is not even close to. i would put rose,canseco and bonds in and leave everyone else out.:smokesmal
WildBill
2
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
Have you actually looked at the stats? By all means McGwire's 16 year career is worthy of first ballot election. Its an utter joke he didn't get it. If he had as many at bats as Palmeiro did (ie. they didn't walk him and otherwise pitch around him), Mac could have hit close to 900 homers. The guy had a better on-base percentage than Palmeiro. He's 7th all time hitting homers. I could go on, but I know people are so enamored with the steroids issue so I won't.
If steroids were really so evil and dangerous they should have banned them in the past. I am sorry, but they are medications and nothing else. Nothing illegal about them and just a fact of life. If we start saying one guy deserves this, but the other guy doesn't because he might have used some substances which weren't illegal we are kidding ourselves to call this a hall of fame. It is instead the Hall of the Chosen Ones and the ones doing the choosing are just a bunch of sports writing dweebs who have papers to sell.
Have you actually looked at the stats? By all means McGwire's 16 year career is worthy of first ballot election. Its an utter joke he didn't get it. If he had as many at bats as Palmeiro did (ie. they didn't walk him and otherwise pitch around him), Mac could have hit close to 900 homers. The guy had a better on-base percentage than Palmeiro. He's 7th all time hitting homers. I could go on, but I know people are so enamored with the steroids issue so I won't.
If steroids were really so evil and dangerous they should have banned them in the past. I am sorry, but they are medications and nothing else. Nothing illegal about them and just a fact of life. If we start saying one guy deserves this, but the other guy doesn't because he might have used some substances which weren't illegal we are kidding ourselves to call this a hall of fame. It is instead the Hall of the Chosen Ones and the ones doing the choosing are just a bunch of sports writing dweebs who have papers to sell.
marlboro8425
EOG Senior Member
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
steroids do work, i have seen it 1st hand on a number of occasions, as im sure alot of people on here have. My one friend went from being a very average player at best, striking out alot with no power, prob around a .240 average or so to the next year hitting 350 foot shots every other game, 2 and 3 times a game on several occasions. Sure, it is on a much lower talent level than MLB but the truth is they do work and they are performance enhancers so it will always be discussed and argued about. It does make average players good and good players above average in my opinion, theres just no other way around it.
steroids do work, i have seen it 1st hand on a number of occasions, as im sure alot of people on here have. My one friend went from being a very average player at best, striking out alot with no power, prob around a .240 average or so to the next year hitting 350 foot shots every other game, 2 and 3 times a game on several occasions. Sure, it is on a much lower talent level than MLB but the truth is they do work and they are performance enhancers so it will always be discussed and argued about. It does make average players good and good players above average in my opinion, theres just no other way around it.
marlboro8425
EOG Senior Member
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
he had a .263 career average...if it wasnt for juice, he was the modern day dave kingman...900 homers LOL
he had a .263 career average...if it wasnt for juice, he was the modern day dave kingman...900 homers LOL
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
It was his batting practice bat that was corked, the one in which he uses to show off to his fans before games. So what if he forgot to put it away for six consecutive years.
Sammy is a lock for the HOF for he just joined a very elite club. He's not only tolerated, but liked by many as well, including the writers who will vote him in.
It was his batting practice bat that was corked, the one in which he uses to show off to his fans before games. So what if he forgot to put it away for six consecutive years.
Sammy is a lock for the HOF for he just joined a very elite club. He's not only tolerated, but liked by many as well, including the writers who will vote him in.
WildBill
2
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
Do the math. He had half as many at bats as Hammerin Hank Aaron. Go look at the chart of the top 50 all-time homers. Only one player, Carlos Delgado, has had fewer ABs and yet Mac is number 7 on the list. His HR rate of 1 homer per 10.6 ABs is amazing, yet somehow that isn't HOF worthy?
As for .263 batting average, its better than Killebrew or Reggie, but that didn't keep those guys from getting to the HOF. Plus on-base percentage is acknowledged as a better stat than batting average. McGwire's .394 is in number 72 all-time. For a comparison it is just 4 points lower than one of the most respected hitters all time in Joe DiMaggio.
Bottom line is if this guy doesn't get to the HOF then they should just shut the place down. Its already a joke that they voted in Kirby Puckett first ballot at over 80% while McGwire got 25%. Go compare the numbers those guys put up and tell me that was justified. Nothing against Kirby, but the HOF isn't supposed to be a popularity contest.
Do the math. He had half as many at bats as Hammerin Hank Aaron. Go look at the chart of the top 50 all-time homers. Only one player, Carlos Delgado, has had fewer ABs and yet Mac is number 7 on the list. His HR rate of 1 homer per 10.6 ABs is amazing, yet somehow that isn't HOF worthy?
As for .263 batting average, its better than Killebrew or Reggie, but that didn't keep those guys from getting to the HOF. Plus on-base percentage is acknowledged as a better stat than batting average. McGwire's .394 is in number 72 all-time. For a comparison it is just 4 points lower than one of the most respected hitters all time in Joe DiMaggio.
Bottom line is if this guy doesn't get to the HOF then they should just shut the place down. Its already a joke that they voted in Kirby Puckett first ballot at over 80% while McGwire got 25%. Go compare the numbers those guys put up and tell me that was justified. Nothing against Kirby, but the HOF isn't supposed to be a popularity contest.
IDENTITY
2
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
wildbill - i guess you are right about mcgwire...his #s are just too good....but he didnt perform in crunch time like reggie jackson did, so please dont even use their names in the same sentence....but i guess mac gets in...i just dont like how he did it while on steroids....and then didn't have the spine to admit it...
wildbill - i guess you are right about mcgwire...his #s are just too good....but he didnt perform in crunch time like reggie jackson did, so please dont even use their names in the same sentence....but i guess mac gets in...i just dont like how he did it while on steroids....and then didn't have the spine to admit it...
WildBill
2
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
Why should he admit anything? It wasn't illegal so why subject yourself to the court of public clowns like sportswriters? If he did something clearly illegal and then was questioned on it I would agree with you, but what he did was available to each and every other player in the league. When you let these clowns try to say what is right and wrong you get a mess like this now. Would they really lead us to believe McGwire would have hit .200 and had like 200 homers without using supplements?
This just speaks to my belief the whole policy is a joke. To say you can use this, but not that just makes the situation worse. They need to come out and say you can't use illegal substances and if you use any substances they must be under a doctor's supervision. Then its an even playing field and you will find still the guys who are blessed with natural abilities plus the work ethic to spend more time in the gym than average will come out ahead. McGwire is a huge guy suited for football that still had the skills to be a great baseball player. What supplements he took make no difference in that.
Why should he admit anything? It wasn't illegal so why subject yourself to the court of public clowns like sportswriters? If he did something clearly illegal and then was questioned on it I would agree with you, but what he did was available to each and every other player in the league. When you let these clowns try to say what is right and wrong you get a mess like this now. Would they really lead us to believe McGwire would have hit .200 and had like 200 homers without using supplements?
This just speaks to my belief the whole policy is a joke. To say you can use this, but not that just makes the situation worse. They need to come out and say you can't use illegal substances and if you use any substances they must be under a doctor's supervision. Then its an even playing field and you will find still the guys who are blessed with natural abilities plus the work ethic to spend more time in the gym than average will come out ahead. McGwire is a huge guy suited for football that still had the skills to be a great baseball player. What supplements he took make no difference in that.
WildBill
2
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
Well I don't remember the timeline of testing, but quite simply you had to know if there was testing Mac was getting tested. They could call it random all they wanted, he was getting tested. I don't believe anyone called for testing though until the mid 90s at the earliest. Every league has just had a hard-on for illegal drugs like pot and coke, only recently have they even cared about "performance enhancing" drugs. Some of which are found in cold and allergy medicine. That ought to tell you how stupid the whole thing is.
The Bonds controversy comes because Balco and the like basically took known substances ruled as illegal and then performed some chemistry magic to get them to be legal. Of course during the offseason the league would say ok these things are illegal and the circus would begin anew. Bonds almost certainly was taking stuff that would be just a year or two away from being banned and everyone knew it. Whether you call that smart management of the law or crooked is up to you. But you all know I am on the side of ending this charade and making most everything legal.
Well I don't remember the timeline of testing, but quite simply you had to know if there was testing Mac was getting tested. They could call it random all they wanted, he was getting tested. I don't believe anyone called for testing though until the mid 90s at the earliest. Every league has just had a hard-on for illegal drugs like pot and coke, only recently have they even cared about "performance enhancing" drugs. Some of which are found in cold and allergy medicine. That ought to tell you how stupid the whole thing is.
The Bonds controversy comes because Balco and the like basically took known substances ruled as illegal and then performed some chemistry magic to get them to be legal. Of course during the offseason the league would say ok these things are illegal and the circus would begin anew. Bonds almost certainly was taking stuff that would be just a year or two away from being banned and everyone knew it. Whether you call that smart management of the law or crooked is up to you. But you all know I am on the side of ending this charade and making most everything legal.
IDENTITY
2
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
wildbill - why, fundamentally, are you pro perf enhancers? wouldn't you rather see sports played in a pure fashion, rather than souped up on drugs, which although legal, make one grow unnaturally. i just don't think the games were made to be played while cutting corners...
wildbill - why, fundamentally, are you pro perf enhancers? wouldn't you rather see sports played in a pure fashion, rather than souped up on drugs, which although legal, make one grow unnaturally. i just don't think the games were made to be played while cutting corners...
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
That sumes it up nicely...
And whoever suggested Barry Bonds may not get in must be on something I'd like to try... :LMAO
That sumes it up nicely...
And whoever suggested Barry Bonds may not get in must be on something I'd like to try... :LMAO
The Devil
EOG Master
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
Sports writers do the voting and Bonds isn't very well liked, Sosa may be liked but with a 75% vote needed to get in Bonds nor Sosa will get in on a first ballot as they proved with McGwire.
Will be interesting to see if McGwire gains the hall in the next few ballots as these other players have to retire first and wait five years before they become eligible.
But if the first vote on McGwire is an indication from the scribes, they will all have a long wait to get in.
Sports writers do the voting and Bonds isn't very well liked, Sosa may be liked but with a 75% vote needed to get in Bonds nor Sosa will get in on a first ballot as they proved with McGwire.
Will be interesting to see if McGwire gains the hall in the next few ballots as these other players have to retire first and wait five years before they become eligible.
But if the first vote on McGwire is an indication from the scribes, they will all have a long wait to get in.
The Devil
EOG Master
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
ID, the selection committee is based solely on sportswriters that have a vote, 75% of them need to vote for a candidate for that player to get elected, many of those voters have said they will not vote for him.......comprende?
ID, the selection committee is based solely on sportswriters that have a vote, 75% of them need to vote for a candidate for that player to get elected, many of those voters have said they will not vote for him.......comprende?
The Devil
EOG Master
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
For arguments sake, lets say there are 500 voters, meaning you need 375 votes to get elected.
If 50 refuse to vote for Bonds on just the steroid issue alone that means he needs 375 of the other 450. I am sure 10 just hate the guy and won't vote for him so now we are 375/440. Add that to the fact there are always a few guys that that never want to see a unanamous vote and it becomes questionable if he gets in.
For arguments sake, lets say there are 500 voters, meaning you need 375 votes to get elected.
If 50 refuse to vote for Bonds on just the steroid issue alone that means he needs 375 of the other 450. I am sure 10 just hate the guy and won't vote for him so now we are 375/440. Add that to the fact there are always a few guys that that never want to see a unanamous vote and it becomes questionable if he gets in.
The Devil
EOG Master
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
I don't know the percentage. But I will call them all up today to find out for you.
I do know one thing for certain ID. If you were my wife I would be getting out of jail soon for the murder.:hung
I don't know the percentage. But I will call them all up today to find out for you.
I do know one thing for certain ID. If you were my wife I would be getting out of jail soon for the murder.:hung
IDENTITY
2
Re: Sammy Sosa - Hall of Famer?
but devil - you're forgetting he's the top 1-2 players of all time. he will have hit the most homers of all time. he is definitely getting in, my friend. voters won't leave him off because of his personality. please. his career has been too great. its not a popularity vote when you are the homer run king. he is in easily.
but devil - you're forgetting he's the top 1-2 players of all time. he will have hit the most homers of all time. he is definitely getting in, my friend. voters won't leave him off because of his personality. please. his career has been too great. its not a popularity vote when you are the homer run king. he is in easily.