An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

[frankjohnson]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">(I'm no longer responding to the racists around here but I must respond to Dirty and his misguided minions)</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>You were against fair child labor laws and mine safety legislation; you were against a decent minimum wage, you were against social security, against medicare, you were, and are, against fair health care for 50 million of your fellow citizens, 10 million of them children. You are against labor unions and the right of men and women collectively bargain for decent wages and working conditions. You were even against Federal Deposit Insurance protection, you are against spending money for expanded public education, you fight environmental protections at every turn. You were against civil rights laws, against affirmative action, against expanded, cheaper student loans, against prescription drug coverage for seniors, against mental health coverage in medicare, and against after school sports programs.
In short, you right wingers have opposed every progressive idea that helps people, families, and Americans of modest means make their lives easier. And you are against gay people; you just love to hate them.
And what are you for? The death penalty, free and open access to weapons, automatic and otherwise, for making it easier to spy on Americans, to have access to their bank accounts and medical records, and curtail free speech.
You are for corporate interests, lower taxes for the wealthy, government subsidies and outright welfare for multi-national corporations, oh yeah, you are for war, for pushing your weight around in the world, for being the modern day Crusader, and for allowing more people to hate and fear us around the world.
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[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

But at least we know the Titanic didn't split in half or so said the British Trade inquiry to the great relief of global warming debunkers and pro smoking advocates everywhere who rely on corporate "sceintists" to guide their actions.

 

[YUNGBUCK]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

And what you speak of are, in some instances, only the vehicles that they use to get what they want. If the means are that despicable, one can only imagine what the ends must be. Let me fancy a shot at it; I believe it's circular: Power(War)-perpetuates control (oil) - Perpetuates $$$ - And back around again.
And by the time John Q. Evangelist noticed it, the teet had been suckled dry. And there was nothing but a lame duck left to haggle his last year and a half away "fighting for the borders" until somebody shows up around January of '09 to drive the getaway car.
I'd like to thank you GENIUSES here in the Southland for leading us down this sainted highway!!

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Reading Frank's and Yung's excellent posts must be like being a Republican on a helluva drunk and waking up asking, "What the hell did I do?"

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Lying without qualification, with impunity, is the coin of the realm for both political extremes.

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Reading Frank's and Yung's excellent posts must be like being a Republican on a helluva drunk and waking up asking, "What the hell did I do?"

Props for thy humor!

 

[milwaukeemike]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

way to completely stereotype!

frank you have now succeeded in offending just about everyone here by calling them either a racist or a misguided minion.

probably your first success in life!

arty

 

[Trip my ducks]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Frank,

Once again, you lump many issues in one basket so I will give you a basket response.

I and most other conservatives believe that the Federal Government has attained a level of authority never intended by our founding fathers. I prefer not to live in a Nanny State where the Federal Government is expected to provide for our needs.

I feel the primary responsibilities of the Federal Government are to provide for a national defense and insure that the principles of our Constitution are upheld for all citizens in our courts. Having done that, it may politely get the fuck out of our way.

Sadly, increasing numbers of Americans expect the government to provide for them. We are well on our way to becoming a Socialistic Police State, where the government meets all of our needs (poorly) through coercive redistribution of wealth.

Have our Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights become nothing more than faded paper. The more we stray from their charted course, the more lost we are as a nation.

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Bill Clinton is employed by dubai. Hillary and her phony socialist sounding soundbites about oil profits are intended to lure a public outraged by sky rocketing gas prices to her side. The clintons are waiting in the wings to keep the oil wheels turning. That's what happening. And don't forget the titantic didn't split in two. It's an ancient tale by now, the rich fuck over the poor, always have always will and all the republican excuses in the world won't cover their complicity and hillary and bill are doing their part as well.

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Frank,

Once again, you lump many issues in one basket so I will give you a basket response.

I and most other conservatives believe that the Federal Government has attained a level of authority never intended by our founding fathers. I prefer not to live in a Nanny State where the Federal Government is expected to provide for our needs.

I feel the primary responsibilities of the Federal Government are to provide for a national defense and insure that the principles of our Constitution are upheld for all citizens in our courts. Having done that, it may politely get the fuck out of our way.

Sadly, increasing numbers of Americans expect the government to provide for them. We are well on our way to becoming a Socialistic Police State, where the government meets all of our needs (poorly) through coercive redistribution of wealth.

Have our Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights become nothing more than faded paper. The more we stray from their charted course, the more lost we are as a nation.

Where have i heard this before? When child labor laws were proposed, when social security was enacted, when medicare was approved, today when tens of millions are still without heallthcare, during the civil rights battles, minimum wage fights............it's the same tired argument the greedy have been making for the last hundred years to stop any type of social progress.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Where have i heard this before? When child labor laws were proposed, when social security was enacted, when medicare was approved, today when tens of millions are still without heallthcare, during the civil rights battles, minimum wage fights............it's the same tired argument the greedy have been making for the last hundred years to stop any type of social progress.

True.

 

[Trip my ducks]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Frank,

Our country was established as a Constitutional Republic. I hardly consider our Constitution to be a "tired argument". If you prefer socialism, have the balls to say it!

 

[KTBKRUSHER]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">what truly astounds me is zz and buck agreeing with him.

dude you are so off base its unreal....over half your post is complete bs..
where did you read it and then rewrite it to try and make it sound like your own....
I don't know of any Republican that is against child labor laws..that is a very stupid comment....
i live in a place where there are many mines close and think there should be stringent mining laws......
i think labor unions can be good if they are used correctly but 99% of the time they are not and i challenge you to show me 2 instances where unions were actually correct and were not asking for crazy crap.......
fair healthcare???????? are you talking about my taxes paying for someone who refuses to work to get healthcare...yes im against that....it should not be the governments responsability.....


i could go on but what would be the point....take off your colored glasses and try sipping from the tit you guys describe but get off the left one..get on the right one and see how reality tastes.
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[ZZ CREAM]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Before such laws were enacted, Republicans were against every one of the quoted causes and then, like to take credit for the 'advances'.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Frank,

Our country was established as a Constitutional Republic. I hardly consider our Constitution to be a "tired argument". If you prefer socialism, have the balls to say it!

Frank is simply talking about leveling the playing field slightly, no where near level, but all betterments for the working man have been achieved over the protestations of the 'right'. Some things never change.

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Before such laws were enacted, Republicans were against every one of the quoted causes and then, like to take credit for the 'advances'.

Ain't that the truth. Hell that's why they are republicans. They think the poor are stealing their money when it's been the military-industrial multi-nationals all the time. Billions upon billions for iraq is the most recent example. I stands by the post which began this thread and the repubs just don't likes hearing the truth.

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Bill Clinton is employed by dubai. Hillary and her phony socialist sounding soundbites about oil profits are intended to lure a public outraged by sky rocketing gas prices to her side. The clintons are waiting in the wings to keep the oil wheels turning. That's what happening. And don't forget the titantic didn't split in two. It's an ancient tale by now, the rich fuck over the poor, always have always will and all the republican excuses in the world won't cover their complicity and hillary and bill are doing their part as well.

These repubs think they are so slick and can't even see what's going on with hillary and her phony ass campaign. Bill is now on big oil payroll but they don't get it. Hillary's going to win by a mile and then she'll find a reason why we can't leave iraq. Maybe even reinstiute the draft as only a liberal could get away with it. Whatever hillary and bill were back in their Yale days, those people are long since history as they've been bought and sold who knows how many times since.

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

These repubs think they are so slick and can't even see what's going on with hillary and her phony ass campaign. Bill is now on big oil payroll but they don't get it. Hillary's going to win by a mile and then she'll find a reason why we can't leave iraq. Maybe even reinstiute the draft as only a liberal could get away with it. Whatever hillary and bill were back in their Yale days, those people are long since history as they've been bought and sold who knows how many times since.

Why is it that gambling forum posters can be such "wise guys" when it comes to the penny ante world of betting never taking anything at face value but be so utterly "square" when it comes to politics. Machiavelli ain't got nothing on our current brand of so called, plitical leadership.

 

[dirty]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Frank,

Our country was established as a Constitutional Republic. I hardly consider our Constitution to be a "tired argument". If you prefer socialism, have the balls to say it!

Only Truthfull post in this thread :cheers :cheers

 

[gopherbob]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Frank,

Our country was established as a Constitutional Republic. I hardly consider our Constitution to be a "tired argument". If you prefer socialism, have the balls to say it!

socialism is an economic system, not a form of government.

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

According to the republicans civil rights was socialism, medicare was socialism, labor unions were socialism, anti war is socialism, decent wage is socialism, safe working conditions was socialism. What isn't socialism? Sweatshops, dude. Bring 'em back. Resotre the american dirty dreams of.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

According to the republicans civil rights was socialism, medicare was socialism, labor unions were socialism, anti war is socialism, decent wage is socialism, safe working conditions was socialism. What isn't socialism? Sweatshops, dude. Bring 'em back. Resotre the american dirty dreams of.

I am confused.........when are we socialists..........when are we communists..........and when are we traitors????????????????? Or are all three 'the same'?

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

I am confused.........when are we socialists..........when are we communists..........and when are we traitors????????????????? Or are all three 'the same'?

You're confused. Try being Jewish. We're communists, no we're a conspiracy of bankers, no we're the evil force manipulating countries into war, no we're anti war pussies, no we're the agitators for the labor movement trying to improve the lot of working people in the twentieth century............bla, bla, bla. We're whatever racists are against.

 

[gopherbob]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

I am confused.........when are we socialists..........when are we communists..........and when are we traitors????????????????? Or are all three 'the same'?

socialism, like capitalism and communism are economic systems that can thrive or fail with any type of government.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

:dancefool :dancefool

socialism, like capitalism and communism are economic systems that can thrive or fail with any type of government.

But Bob, do they qualify you as being 'traitorous'?

Frank: Jewish, is that a race, an ethnicity or just a religion?:dancefool :dancefool

P.S. Frank, you forgot 'horny'!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

 

[gopherbob]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

:dancefool :dancefool But Bob, do they qualify you as being 'traitorous'?

Frank: Jewish, is that a race, an ethnicity or just a religion?:dancefool :dancefool

P.S. Frank, you forgot 'horny'!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

zz, you got me there.

 

[Trip my ducks]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Gopher,

Your definitions of socialism and communism are inaccurate.

Communism is not an economic system. It is a political system in which all property and industry are owned or controlled by the State.

Socialism is a communist philosophy of equal sharing among the populous.

To those that would embrace aspects of socialism (redistribution of wealth for example) to cure the ills of capitalism, well... I think your intentions are good. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with.

 

[gopherbob]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Gopher,

Your definitions of socialism and communism are inaccurate.

Communism is not an economic system. It is a political system in which all property and industry are owned or controlled by the State.

Socialism is a communist philosophy of equal sharing among the populous.

To those that would embrace aspects of socialism (redistribution of wealth for example) to cure the ills of capitalism, well... I think your intentions are good. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with.

three types of government: 1) monarchy 2) oligarchy 3) democracy
three types of economic systems: 1) capitalism 2) socialism 3) communism
mix and match and you'll come up with all countries.
some examples: great britain is a democracy with a socialist economic system, cuba is a monarchy with a communist econmic system.

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

And the U.S. is an area free zone where you ought to be able to do what you want but the evangelical right has fucked it up. (Just kidding, I think.)

 

[Trip my ducks]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Jesus Gopher, I'm not sure what planet you're from.

So Fidel is the King of Cuba? Communism is not a form of government? And by the way,you may be interested to learn that Great Britain is a Constitutional Monarchy with a capitalist economy.

And I suppose you would consider our form of government to be a democracy? WRONG! We are a Constitutional Republic, a form of government which according to you does not exist.

Democracy, Gopher, is majority rule and perhaps could best be illustrated by two wolves and a pig voting on what's for dinner. A Constitutional Republic could offer the same scenario except that the pig would have a gun.

Gopher, I enjoy your recent posts in that you speak with authority. How nice it would be if you only spoke knowledgably as well.

Frank, we may have more in common than you imagine. I'm a huge J.M. fan as well.

 

[YUNGBUCK]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

three types of government: 1) monarchy 2) oligarchy 3) democracy
three types of economic systems: 1) capitalism 2) socialism 3) communism
mix and match and you'll come up with all countries.
some examples: great britain is a democracy with a socialist economic system, cuba is a monarchy with a communist econmic system.

And America is a monarchy with a capitalist/elitist-slanted economic system!

:bank:

 

[gopherbob]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Jesus Gopher, I'm not sure what planet you're from.

So Fidel is the King of Cuba? Communism is not a form of government? And by the way,you may be interested to learn that Great Britain is a Constitutional Monarchy with a capitalist economy.

And I suppose you would consider our form of government to be a democracy? WRONG! We are a Constitutional Republic, a form of government which according to you does not exist.

Democracy, Gopher, is majority rule and perhaps could best be illustrated by two wolves and a pig voting on what's for dinner. A Constitutional Republic could offer the same scenario except that the pig would have a gun.

Gopher, I enjoy your recent posts in that you speak with authority. How nice it would be if you only spoke knowledgably as well.

Frank, we may have more in common than you imagine. I'm a huge J.M. fan as well.

go to dictionary.com, the definition of monarchy is "supreme power or sovereignty held by a single person." that means one single person, be he a king, dictator, emperor, or whatever he calls himself, rules alone.

an oligarchy means (also from dictionary.com) "a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons or in a dominant class or clique; government by the few." this can be a military junta, a group of religious leaders (theocracy), etc.

democracy means "government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system." (also from dictionary.com)even though there is a king or queen in england, they are mearly figureheads, the real power is the pm and parliment, which are elected by the people.

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[ZZ CREAM]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

And America is a monarchy with a capitalist/elitist-slanted economic system!

:bank:

.................and lots of Sheep!

 

[gopherbob]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Jesus Gopher, I'm not sure what planet you're from.

So Fidel is the King of Cuba? Communism is not a form of government? And by the way,you may be interested to learn that Great Britain is a Constitutional Monarchy with a capitalist economy.

And I suppose you would consider our form of government to be a democracy? WRONG! We are a Constitutional Republic, a form of government which according to you does not exist.

Democracy, Gopher, is majority rule and perhaps could best be illustrated by two wolves and a pig voting on what's for dinner. A Constitutional Republic could offer the same scenario except that the pig would have a gun.

Gopher, I enjoy your recent posts in that you speak with authority. How nice it would be if you only spoke knowledgably as well.

Frank, we may have more in common than you imagine. I'm a huge J.M. fan as well.

i know it's debatable, but minnesota is on earth. another definition from dictionary.com for communism is:

1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.
2. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

so technically we're both right here.

 

[Trip my ducks]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

Gopher,

Good post, although I do find the Dictionary.com definitions a little simplistic.

Democracy may be loosely defined as government by the people, but what kind of government? Democracy is best defined as a government by the people, characterized by the rule of the majority. Thankfully, we do not live in a democracy, for if we did minorities and those who hold unpopular opinions or beliefs would be in a world of trouble. We are a Republic. Say the
Pledge of Allegiance to yourself if you doubt me.

I do believe that your interpetation of the definition of monarchy has resulted in a world wide first of the Cuban government being considered a monarchy.

Finally, the two definitions referenced for communism are interesting. However, I feel the first refers more to relatively small collectives and communes while the second accurately defines the term on a national scale.

By the way, I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat (although I do support Ron Paul). As you may have surmised, I hold Libertarian values.

 

[gopherbob]

Re: An open letter to Dirty and right wing nut cases

cuba is a monarchy in the sense that castro has/had complete power.

the two definitions for communism are (i think) the first is more in theory while the second is more in practice.

our country is a democracy, even though we are a republic, we still elect those to make the decisions, in cuba, the people have no say in the running of the government.

it doesn't matter what you call yourself, north korea calls itself Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), i don't think anyone can call it anything but a communist dictatorship.

when i took poli-sci many (34) years ago, our first assignment was to make a grid with the 3 types of government along with the 3 economic systems and fill it, i remember it being hard to fill the democracy and communism one. i used salvator allende's chile in the early 70's as the only one that i could think of.

as far as my political leanings, i like to think of myself as being a progressive
libertarian.