Something that confuses me about this election

[IHaveBeenAround]

Which party was in power when Jay Cohen and 20 something other people were indicted for offshore bookmaking and violation of the wire act?

What political party was Mary Jo White a member of?

So why would we root for Democrats to win? Can someone please explain it to me?

Why would the Shrink make a plea to vote Democrat? He was there and saw what a Democrat DOJ DA did to Jay.

This is a serious question. Why vote for either party since we have suffered persecution under both.

 

[jakethompson]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Which party was in power when Jay Cohen and 20 something other people were indicted for offshore bookmaking and violation of the wire act?

What political party was Mary Jo White a member of?

So why would we root for Democrats to win? Can someone please explain it to me?

Why would the Shrink make a plea to vote Democrat? He was there and saw what a Democrat DOJ DA did to Jay.

This is a serious question. Why vote for either party since we have suffered persecution under both.

Because it's one or the other and the Dems are the lessor of the two evils if you care about gambling and your rights. Would be nice if a smaller party would win because I agree with some of them much more than either of the two bigs but when it all comes down to it, one of those parties will almost always win so you gotta make your vote count either way. I can vote for the Green Party till I'm green in the face but at the end of the day, my vote didn't decide diddly.

 

[sean1]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Who indicted Jay Cohen? A republican.
Who has written every anti online gambling law? A republican
Who weaseled through an anti online gambling law? Republican.

Find me one case were a democrat wrote or pushed to ban online gaming.,..


Sean

 

[dirty]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

sean...there were 115 cases of it that Helped push this thru the house this year.... A stronger Version of what Frist pushed thru....it was brought up and they Helped push it thru...ON ITS ON!!! they chose to vote for it not fight it.... just as bad.... kinda like robbing a bank... you may not be the one that asked for the money...but if you are in there with em' you are still a bank robber.

 

[IHaveBeenAround]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Who indicted Jay Cohen? A republican.
Who has written every anti online gambling law? A republican
Who weaseled through an anti online gambling law? Republican.

Find me one case were a democrat wrote or pushed to ban online gaming.,..


Sean

Are you really this stupid? Let's see

Who indicted Jay Cohen? Janet Reno and Mary Jo White - both democrates

Who was written every anti-online gambling law? Well in a Democratic South Dakota, it was democrats. Many of the other states that have them are also Democratic. The federal law just past was voted on by EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT IN CONGRESS.

Here is something else I keep seeing in the headlines...

"SNAPSHOT-U.S. stocks edge lower as Democrats take House"

LOL.

You guys are responsible for negative stock market today and many weeks to come I am sure especially if the Dems win the senate.

Nice work boys!

 

[Mr. Smith]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

are you really that stupid?

and the dow is down a whopping 23 pts

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

are you really that stupid?

and the dow is down a whopping 23 pts

How long before oil futures get blasted through the roof? Can you say 'I Love Saudi Arabia'?

 

[IHaveBeenAround]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

are you really that stupid?

and the dow is down a whopping 23 pts

just quoting the headlines from every major news source written in english...

 

[MCP]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Which party was in power when Jay Cohen and 20 something other people were indicted for offshore bookmaking and violation of the wire act?

What political party was Mary Jo White a member of?

So why would we root for Democrats to win? Can someone please explain it to me?

Why would the Shrink make a plea to vote Democrat? He was there and saw what a Democrat DOJ DA did to Jay.

This is a serious question. Why vote for either party since we have suffered persecution under both.

Republicans. they controlled house and senate. so do you think the order came from Clinton himself ?

It was a Republican.

 

[Omnipotent Frog]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

It appears you get confused rather easily. And you are quick to call other people stupid and cite every news source, but of course, you have been around, so that is the way it is, according to you. This thread is so far off it belongs in the dump. Don't tryout for the school debate team, you look worse than GDub.

OF...:+music1-6

 

[JC]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

You are correct that I was originally prosecuted by a US Attorney's office that was headed by a Clinton appointee.

Prior to my prosecution, the DOJ spokesperson in DC said offshore wagering was out of their jurisdiction.

It has been the Republicans not the Democrats who have been pressing for laws against online gambling for almost 10 years now. I am not syaing Dems don't vote for them when they come up, they do. But the Republicans have and will be the driving force behind them.

 

[Mr. Smith]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

dow is down 30 pts. defense sector stocks are down today. any sane person might argue that we have wasted enough billions in Iraq and defense stocks going lower is not such a bad thing

 

[JC]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Let me emphasize, do not confuse the actions of any US Attorney's office, particularly the Southern District of NY, with the priorities of any administration. There isn't necessarily a correlation.

(Although I do know that this DOJ is against online gambling at the highest levels. Reno's got sucked into the fight when the SD of NY made their move.)

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

God Bless You Jay........Thank You for what you have done.....for me and everybody!

 

[The Devil]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

ONLY THING I CAN ADD TO THIS IS A ONE MAN GANG (DEM, BKLYN D.A) CHARLES HYNES IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE BOOKMAKING ARRESTS THEN ANY MAN IN HISTORY......I KNOW OF 14 MYSELF AND I AM SURE FERNIE, MONTY AND A FEW OTHERS IN C.R AND OTHER OFFSHORE PLACES KNOW OF MANY MORE.......

 

[IHaveBeenAround]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

ONLY THING I CAN ADD TO THIS IS A ONE MAN GANG (DEM, BKLYN D.A) CHARLES HYNES IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE BOOKMAKING ARRESTS THEN ANY MAN IN HISTORY......I KNOW OF 14 MYSELF AND I AM SURE FERNIE, MONTY AND A FEW OTHERS IN C.R AND OTHER OFFSHORE PLACES KNOW OF MANY MORE.......

Thanks devil for pointing out the obvious. neither party wants us to gamble

 

[IHaveBeenAround]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Let me emphasize, do not confuse the actions of any US Attorney's office, particularly the Southern District of NY, with the priorities of any administration. There isn't necessarily a correlation.

(Although I do know that this DOJ is against online gambling at the highest levels. Reno's got sucked into the fight when the SD of NY made their move.)

Well evidently DOJ was against it at the "highest levels" under Clinton as well.

You weren't the only person indicted.

About 22 more, sir. 22 more that had nothing to do with MLB team nicknames on their websites. 22 more that were all in the Buzz Daly players guide, sir.

Please don't tell me you too are brainwashed and think there is a difference between these two parties.

Please don't tell me you too think that we have somehow done this nation a great favor by voting Democrat.

Please don't tell me you think it will matter who is in office; that the wire act will not be enforced and prosecuted under the Dems.

Please don't tell me you have lost your mind.

 

[The Devil]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Thanks devil for pointing out the obvious. neither party wants us to gamble

I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE CASE....IT SEEMS YOU ARE EITHER FOR GAMING OR AGAINST IT......NOT REALLY A PARTY THING, IT'S JUST THE WAY YOU ARE BROUGHT UP......MY KIDS WERE 6 AND SAYING TO THEIR FRIENDS...OH YEAH...WANNA BET....

AS FOR THOSE OTHER 22, I DON'T KNOW WHO CAME BACK AND WHO ARE STILL FUGITIVES.....BUT AM PRETTY SURE CHESTER IS ONE OF THEM......

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Lots of hypocrisy on both sides on many issues.....in fact more than enough to go around.......dems are no better when it comes to gambling law than reps.....the only reason I, and many others are so vociferous in supporting the removal of Reps is for this silliest excuse of a war and nation-building that they have pushed on the US people......all so Bush and his buddies can get rich. That's it....the war/nation-building. Bush and all of his cronies should be kicked out of office and thrown in jail. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Good Night and God Bless.

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

As Ross Perot once said about the Democrats and Republicans;;when asked how they were different from his Independant Party; he called them "tweedle dee or tweedle dumb".

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

I might add that The Democrats==the party of the Lawyers in the US and The Republicans==the party of the doctors in the US.

Simple enough--Both are big money whores!

 

[JC]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Well evidently DOJ was against it at the "highest levels" under Clinton as well.

You weren't the only person indicted.

About 22 more, sir. 22 more that had nothing to do with MLB team nicknames on their websites. 22 more that were all in the Buzz Daly players guide, sir.

All 22 people charged were charged by the Southern District of NY. As I have stated before the law firm repsenting the sports leagues, Debevoise and Plimpton, were asked by their cronies at the SD office who they should prosecute. They responded with documentation of multiple sportsbooks they should go after. They not only gave them names, they gave them print outs of their web sites and examples of their advertising.

This is all documented. I have several inches of correspondence between Debevoise and the Southern District. They went to their buddies to complain about Cohen and WSEX. SD said who else should we go after and they told them.

It had nothing to do with the Clinton administration. The DOJ under Clinton had actually publicly stated that offshore gambling was out of their jurisdiction, on more than one occasion. Their spokesperson in DC was named John Russell.

It had nothing to do with Buzz Daly's Player's Guide. We would have received a copy of it as part of the discovery or the subpeonaed material we got from Debevoise if it was involved.

Each US attorney's office operates independently. They don't need clearance from DC to bring any case.

Do I think the country is better today with Democrats? No question about it. I felt the opposite in 1994. I was thrilled in '94 when the Republicans came to power.

These Republicans are nothing like the class of '94. They are corrupt, believe in "Their way or the highway," fiscally reckless, have no respect for the Constitution, particularly the 4th Amendment. They pander way too much to the religious retards.

The only thing they have done is lower taxes which is good. But they still never lowered it to the level it was at before Bush 41 raised them, or even to where they were before Clinton jacked them up. Many of the tax cuts have been offset by increases in state taxes and fees. Many states had to raise things to offset the decreased funding they were getting from the Feds.

It was the Repbulicans that have been the driving force behing the online gambling bills in Congress for the last 9 years. The last bill and the one before it nearly failed in committee with most Democrats voting against and most Republicans voting in favor. Goodlatte's last bill started with 115 co-sponsors, only 5 were democrats.

What's your point? That they are all pigs at the trough? Most of them are. Isn't it amazing how many of them are millionaires, even many of the ones who have been in public service their whole lives? I have never seen a demographic like the Congress before that is so good at stock picking and speculative real estate. What an eye for investments so many of them have! Go figure.

 

[Dell Dude]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

As Ross Perot once said about the Democrats and Republicans;;when asked how they were different from his Independant Party; he called them "tweedle dee or tweedle dumb".

Or when James Racoon Hair Trafficant went on a talking head show and was introduced as Congressman Trafficant he pleaded with the host to stop calling him bad names. He's Prisoner Trafficant now.

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

I wish That I could honestly identify with one of the 2 parties. But they seem to play to fringe groups at both extremes. JC says pigs at the trough ....LOL and it's amazing how many are millionaires and good at picking stock winners...That sums it up pretty well I think.

I hate the thought of having to move across the country to enjoy my last days on earth with my greatest hobby. But nothing much is going to change in this arena for a very very long time. Actually I don't know what events would lead our great leaders to make this whole activity legal for the average American.. Sometimes I think Vegas might take the lead in pushing for it. But then you have the Hotel Industry and the Airline Industry who both make HUGE PROFITS from it staying in Nevada. So--I'm a realist and have no expectations. The one thing that troubles me is leaving for the West Coast and leaving my Mom, who is fairly healthy but still in her midddle 80's on the East Coast. But I have to have a life too!

 

[trytrytry]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Thank good ness the mighty have fallen off their horses and the Dems are back in control.

 

[THE SHRINK]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

All 22 people charged were charged by the Southern District of NY. As I have stated before the law firm repsenting the sports leagues, Debevoise and Plimpton, were asked by their cronies at the SD office who they should prosecute. They responded with documentation of multiple sportsbooks they should go after. They not only gave them names, they gave them print outs of their web sites and examples of their advertising.

This is all documented. I have several inches of correspondence between Debevoise and the Southern District. They went to their buddies to complain about Cohen and WSEX. SD said who else should we go after and they told them.

It had nothing to do with the Clinton administration. The DOJ under Clinton had actually publicly stated that offshore gambling was out of their jurisdiction, on more than one occasion. Their spokesperson in DC was named John Russell.

It had nothing to do with Buzz Daly's Player's Guide. We would have received a copy of it as part of the discovery or the subpeonaed material we got from Debevoise if it was involved.

Each US attorney's office operates independently. They don't need clearance from DC to bring any case.

Do I think the country is better today with Democrats? No question about it. I felt the opposite in 1994. I was thrilled in '94 when the Republicans came to power.

These Republicans are nothing like the class of '94. They are corrupt, believe in "Their way or the highway," fiscally reckless, have no respect for the Constitution, particularly the 4th Amendment. They pander way too much to the religious retards.

The only thing they have done is lower taxes which is good. But they still never lowered it to the level it was at before Bush 41 raised them, or even to where they were before Clinton jacked them up. Many of the tax cuts have been offset by increases in state taxes and fees. Many states had to raise things to offset the decreased funding they were getting from the Feds.

It was the Repbulicans that have been the driving force behing the online gambling bills in Congress for the last 9 years. The last bill and the one before it nearly failed in committee with most Democrats voting against and most Republicans voting in favor. Goodlatte's last bill started with 115 co-sponsors, only 5 were democrats.

What's your point? That they are all pigs at the trough? Most of them are. Isn't it amazing how many of them are millionaires, even many of the ones who have been in public service their whole lives? I have never seen a demographic like the Congress before that is so good at stock picking and speculative real estate. What an eye for investments so many of them have! Go figure.

Thanks for taking the time to to reply...

I could not have said it any better...:+signs8-3

IHaveBeenAround,

Hope this clarifies some things for ya...

THE SHRINK

 

[IHaveBeenAround]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Hey Shrink,

Name one Democrat that has ever spoken up for our right to gamble?

I'll do you one better. Not only is there more than one Libertarian that believes in our right to gamble, it is basically he platform of the entire party!

Libertarian Party Opposes Online Gambling Prohibition

Nance Pelosi has publically stated that she endoreses the criminalizaiton of Internet Gambling because we citizens are too irresponsible to personally temper potentially harmful behavior. She is no friend to Internet gambling and neither is anyone else in either party.

I cannot believe that you and Jay both believe this bunk about the Democrats being better for this country than Republicans.

By fate, fortune, good and bad luck, both Jay Cohen and The Shrink are in the enviable position of being looked up to, admired and respected by posters on this forum and elsewhere.

You would be hard pressed to find 2 people in all of sports wagering with a louder or more eagerly anticipated voice.

By endorsing Democrats OR Republicans you have failed miserably in your function as role models and spokespersons.

It is dissapointing to see you misleading so many unformed minds and lesser experienced gamblers.

Shame on you Shrink. Shame on you Jay.

 

[ynot]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Hey Shrink,

Name one Democrat that has ever spoken up for our right to gamble?

I'll do you one better. Not only is there more than one Libertarian that believes in our right to gamble, it is basically he platform of the entire party!

Libertarian Party Opposes Online Gambling Prohibition

Nance Pelosi has publically stated that she endoreses the criminalizaiton of Internet Gambling because we citizens are too irresponsible to personally temper potentially harmful behavior. She is no friend to Internet gambling and neither is anyone else in either party.

I cannot believe that you and Jay both believe this bunk about the Democrats being better for this country than Republicans.

By fate, fortune, good and bad luck, both Jay Cohen and The Shrink are in the enviable position of being looked up to, admired and respected by posters on this forum and elsewhere.

You would be hard pressed to find 2 people in all of sports wagering with a louder or more eagerly anticipated voice.

By endorsing Democrats OR Republicans you have failed miserably in your function as role models and spokespersons.

It is dissapointing to see you misleading so many unformed minds and lesser experienced gamblers.

Shame on you Shrink. Shame on you Jay.

You should change your name to "neverwillunderstand"

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Anyone that TRULY believes that the democrats are bettor than the republicans or vice versa for online gambling; must also have some very other strange beliefs.... Give me a break.

 

[THE SHRINK]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Hey Shrink,

Name one Democrat that has ever spoken up for our right to gamble?

I'll do you one better. Not only is there more than one Libertarian that believes in our right to gamble, it is basically he platform of the entire party!

Libertarian Party Opposes Online Gambling Prohibition

Nance Pelosi has publically stated that she endoreses the criminalizaiton of Internet Gambling because we citizens are too irresponsible to personally temper potentially harmful behavior. She is no friend to Internet gambling and neither is anyone else in either party.

I cannot believe that you and Jay both believe this bunk about the Democrats being better for this country than Republicans.

By fate, fortune, good and bad luck, both Jay Cohen and The Shrink are in the enviable position of being looked up to, admired and respected by posters on this forum and elsewhere.

You would be hard pressed to find 2 people in all of sports wagering with a louder or more eagerly anticipated voice.

By endorsing Democrats OR Republicans you have failed miserably in your function as role models and spokespersons.

It is dissapointing to see you misleading so many unformed minds and lesser experienced gamblers.

Shame on you Shrink. Shame on you Jay.

You ask me to "Name one Democrat that has ever spoken up for our right to gamble?" :+clueless

Sure, no problem...

Is JULY of 2006 RECENT enough for ya?

http://www.house.gov/frank/internetgamblingjuly2006.html

"......<b>But the fundamental point is this. If an adult in this country, with his or her own money, wants to engage in an activity that harms no one, how dare we prohibit it because it doesn't add to the GDP or it has no macroeconomic benefit. Are we all to take home calculators and, until we have satisfied the gentleman from Iowa that we are being socially useful, we abstain from recreational activities that we choose?......"

"........I guess people think gambling is tacky. They don't like it. Well, fine, then don't do it. But don't prohibit other individuals from engaging in it.

People have said, What is the value of gambling? Here is the value. Some human beings enjoy doing it. Shouldn't that be our principle? If individuals like doing something and they harm no one, we will allow them to do it, even if other people disapprove of what they do........."</b>

Obviously, you have not been around as much as you want people to think.

Oh, and shame on you, too...:+signs15-

THE SHRINK

 

[dirty]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

You ask me to "Name one Democrat that has ever spoken up for our right to gamble?" :+clueless

Sure, no problem...

Is JULY of 2006 RECENT enough for ya?

http://www.house.gov/frank/internetgamblingjuly2006.html

"......But the fundamental point is this. If an adult in this country, with his or her own money, wants to engage in an activity that harms no one, how dare we prohibit it because it doesn't add to the GDP or it has no macroeconomic benefit. Are we all to take home calculators and, until we have satisfied the gentleman from Iowa that we are being socially useful, we abstain from recreational activities that we choose?......"

"........I guess people think gambling is tacky. They don't like it. Well, fine, then don't do it. But don't prohibit other individuals from engaging in it.

People have said, What is the value of gambling? Here is the value. Some human beings enjoy doing it. Shouldn't that be our principle? If individuals like doing something and they harm no one, we will allow them to do it, even if other people disapprove of what they do........."

Obviously, you have not been around as much as you want people to think.

Oh, and shame on you, too...:+signs15-

THE SHRINK

How dare you Shrink :+whipping :+whipping Haven't you learned IHBA is always Right.....and the Rest of the world is Stupid :+textinb3 :+textinb3 :+textinb3

 

[IHaveBeenAround]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

How dare you Shrink :+whipping :+whipping Haven't you learned IHBA is always Right.....and the Rest of the world is Stupid :+textinb3 :+textinb3 :+textinb3

which way did he vote? The last time he made a grand speech about the patriot act he still voted for it.

No offense, but I know all the liberal jews love the Dems for whatever reason. Maybe their entitlement programs or the trial lawyer thing. Not really sure what the reason is but I applaud those that are able to recognize that there is no difference in these two parties.

 

[IHaveBeenAround]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Let us not forget the ONLY true lover of freedom in the entire house or senate is a republican - Ron Paul.

I just can't believe everyone is so happy the Dems won. Anytime a Rep or Dem is elected, as gamblers, we have been defeated.

Hundreds of elected public officials, ZERO want us to gamble, except this one.

Congressman Ron Paul

We all lost on this one guys. We were defeated.

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Just two little things.....
Which group Demorcrat or Republican? Do you think plays (invests) in the stock Market?

Charles Barkley a retired NBA player who attended Auburn Univ. and frequently mentions his bets on TNT games; wants to run for Governor of Alabama as a REPUBLICAN!! That is exactly what he stated!

Anyone can cherry pick individuals for whatever cause there might be, but to suggest democrats are more favorable than republicans....Ummm---"that dog won't hunt"

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

which way did he vote? The last time he made a grand speech about the patriot act he still voted for it.

No offense, but I know all the liberal jews love the Dems for whatever reason. Maybe their entitlement programs or the trial lawyer thing. Not really sure what the reason is but I applaud those that are able to recognize that there is no difference in these two parties.

All the liberal jews???????

You're right.......smartasses.....we need to build a few camps and re-educate them fuckers....yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[Joe]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

Who indicted Jay Cohen? A republican.
Who has written every anti online gambling law? A republican
Who weaseled through an anti online gambling law? Republican.

Find me one case were a democrat wrote or pushed to ban online gaming.,..


Sean

Look at the co-sponsors of the original gambling ban bill (the one defeated). There are quite a few Democrats...

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

If you REALLY want to categorize a group that would favor online gambling; the easiest way to do that would be to say. The HAVES or The HAVE-NOTS.

I think there would be a clear majority of which group favors it as to which group would oppose it..
One of the BIGGEST reasons besides wanting to vote against ALL incumbants in the Senate was clear.. In Virginia. George Allen is a very wealthy man--yet he voted against a raise in the minimum wage! Now he's a Republican. I think that IF (and it's a HUGE IF) one party favors the less fortunate over the other it's the Democrats over the Republicans. But to translate that into favoring online gambling is a reach to put it mildly!
I'm VERY HAPPY ALLEN was defeated!

 

[gopherbob]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

in minnesota, the indian casinos control the democrats and the horse racing interests control the republicans, both are very territorial and against any perceived competition.

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

in minnesota, the indian casinos control the democrats and the horse racing interests control the republicans, both are very territorial and against any perceived competition.

And that is the ONLy state--REPEAT only state--where an Independant canditate--clearly supported Online wagering..
Does it become at all clear to Anyone why you should support Independants?

 

[JC]

Re: Something that confuses me about this election

which way did he vote? The last time he made a grand speech about the patriot act he still voted for it.

No offense, but I know all the liberal jews love the Dems for whatever reason. Maybe their entitlement programs or the trial lawyer thing. Not really sure what the reason is but I applaud those that are able to recognize that there is no difference in these two parties.

IHBA,

Perhaps you didn't read my post where I said they most of them are pigs at the trough. The WSJ long ago coined the terms Remocrats and Depublicans and I tend to agree with it. However, this latest bunch of Republicans took things too far. Again, see what I said above.

I see no reason to invoke religion of the posters into this discussion. Please make your points on the facts of the matter.

If your litmus test is how they voted on the Patriot Act, can I assume the only Senator you support is Russ Feingold (D)? He was the only Senator to vote against the original Patriot Act.

As for Representative Frank and the Patriot Act, you are wrong again. He voted against it originally and he voted against it in the reauthorization in 2005.

See here:

http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.asp?year=2001&rollnumber=398

and here:

http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.asp?year=2005&rollnumber=627

You will also note that the majority of Democrats were opposed to the reauthorization and that only 3 Republicans voted against the original bill.

Finally, I am not a liberal, not that there is anything wrong with it.

I am one of the most conservative people on this board. I believe in limited government, lower taxes, strict interpretation of the Constitution, lower Federal spending, flatter income taxes. I'm also for sending violent criminals away for a long time.

What's liberal about me? That I believe in civil liberties and the 4th Amendment? I hope we don't live in a world where that is now considered a liberal principle.