Who's your "What if....." player
- Thread starter JT McGEE
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JT McGEE
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Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Sure. He could have easily been chasing 700 if for not missing 50 games or more in 7 different seasons.
JT McGEE
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raycabino
Long Live Wilson!
raycabino
Long Live Wilson!
JT McGEE
EOG Addicted
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Yeah, Imagine what Boston's continued run of success would have been.
5 star bomb
EOG Master
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
"The Goat" Earl Manigault
"The Goat" Earl Manigault
Almost Allright
GO Bucks!!!
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
hank gathers
hank gathers
JT McGEE
EOG Addicted
winkyduck
TYVM Morgan William!!!
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Bryan Fogarty
He was the NEXT Bobby Orr - ZERO doubt about it but instead he is one of the saddest stories out there. R.I.P. Bryan - R.I.P.
ESPNMAG.com - Wasted
Bryan Fogarty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bryan Fogarty - HFBoards
Bryan Fogarty
He was the NEXT Bobby Orr - ZERO doubt about it but instead he is one of the saddest stories out there. R.I.P. Bryan - R.I.P.
ESPNMAG.com - Wasted
Bryan Fogarty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bryan Fogarty - HFBoards
winkyduck
TYVM Morgan William!!!
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
and i know he just hit his 600th HR but how many times have we said:
I wonder how many HRs Ken Griffey, Jr would have IF he wasn't so brittle and missed so many games?
Soon he'd be passing Steroid Bonds on the HR list IF.................
and i know he just hit his 600th HR but how many times have we said:
I wonder how many HRs Ken Griffey, Jr would have IF he wasn't so brittle and missed so many games?
Soon he'd be passing Steroid Bonds on the HR list IF.................
5 star bomb
EOG Master
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
The Goat would have been a top 10 NBA Player ALL TIME... and maybe even better
The Goat would have been a top 10 NBA Player ALL TIME... and maybe even better
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
I always thought this guy was going to be the next great QB from California after
Steve Bartkowski. A tragic loss.......What if....
Joe Roth
Locker No. 12 at Memorial Stadium contains a helmet, jersey, pants, cleats, three rolls of tape, a team roster, a photo and two books. Standard stuff for an athlete's dressing stall except this one is sealed in Plexiglass.
The player with the locker next to this one, cornerback Syd'Quan Thompson, will not have to worry about being crowded by his neighbor to the left.
That's Joe Roth's locker. Thirty years ago today, the archetypal All-American boy died at 21 when a particularly virulent form of melanoma swept through his body for a second time.
Many of the men who coached him are now retired and reflective. The guys who played with him are men in their early 50s, busy with careers and families. At an age when young people realize their lives are just starting, Joe Roth's was ending.
The 30th anniversary of Roth's death sneaked up on people who knew him when he was an All-America quarterback at California in the mid 1970s. Days turn into years turn into decades but Roth is forever 21, locked in the flush of youth with his wavy blond hair and blue eyes and potential never to be realized.
"It's been 30 years already?'' said Roger Theder, offensive coordinator on Roth's teams at Cal under head coach Mike White. "He was one of those beautiful kids -- everything you want in a kid to coach. I have nothing but great memories. I can still see him today -- he was a good-looking kid.''
With the passage of time comes word of a possible movie in the works about Roth's life, perhaps a less treacly version of "Brian's Song'' or other schmaltzy efforts that summarize the foreshortened lives of star athletes.
"I think we all are beginning to realize the impact Joe had on a lot of different people,'' said White, Roth's coach in 1975 and '76. "The more people you talk to, the more you realize what an amazing guy he was, the way he lived out his life. Joe internally showed so much courage and didn't want anyone to feel sorry for him. He had supreme mental and physical toughness.''
Roth came to Cal from Grossmont Junior College in San Diego early in 1975, already having been through a cancer scare. That fall, he led the Bears to an 8-3 record as co-champions of what was then the Pac-8 Conference. Bolstered by running back Chuck Muncie and receivers Wesley Walker and Steve Rivera, Cal led the nation in total offense that year by averaging exactly the same yardage totals rushing and passing.
"People forget how good he was as a player because all we talk about is this young guy tragically dying,'' said Jack Clark, a football teammate of Roth's and now Cal's rugby coach. "Joe was really nimble. He could really move around the pocket. He had that quick, quick release. He threw darts all over the field. Calm, cool. It didn't seem like anything rattled him.''
Joe Roth, it seems, might have been Joe Montana a few years before Joe Montana became Joe Montana.
"He was great in the huddle because you never saw a flaw in his leadership,'' said Ted Albrecht, an offensive tackle on those Cal teams. "He never got frazzled. He was such a quiet leader. You appreciated his very low-key attitude.''
Sometime during the 1976 season, Roth found out his cancer had returned, but he kept it to himself. Only White knew what his 6-foot, 4-inch quarterback was really enduring as Cal posted a 5-6 record and Roth earned All-America honors. There was speculation he might go No. 1 in the NFL draft.
In a testament to the young man's fortitude, Roth managed to play in the Japan Bowl all-star game in January 1977, mere weeks before his death. White coached the West squad in that game.
"The whole mental and physical courage he displayed the last weeks and months of his life,'' White said. "Words are hard to express what he did and what he meant to Cal football specifically. After all these years, it's very obvious just how important Joe was to a lot of people and the university. There aren't many people who fit in that category.''
Albrecht, who played six years with the Chicago Bears, was one of Roth's teammates who did not know that the cancer had returned sometime in '76.
"He went through the entire season knowing his cancer had returned,'' said Albrecht, now a Chicago businessman and radio analyst for Northwestern football games. "He had to wake up every morning knowing his days were numbered and didn't share it with anyone. That's a lot of pain.''
Rather than canonize Roth for the strength and dignity he displayed in his dying days, Muncie preferred to remember his quarterback when the sky was clear and blue, before the dark clouds started massing.
"The thing I'd like to keep in perspective is he was a guy, a ballplayer, a kid who was really enjoying life,'' said Muncie, who now runs a football scouting service and a youth foundation. "He was still a young kid having fun, like all of us were. He liked to drink his beers and hang out with the guys. He was a team guy.
"I remember the first time he and I went out and had a few beers. It didn't take many, I tell you. He had two or three and he'd get a buzz and get all goofy. He had this smile on his face.''
Muncie, who played for the New Orleans Saints and San Diego Chargers in his career, said of Roth as a player, "He would have been as good as any quarterback who played the game. His poise, his ability to pick up an offense, the guy had the skills.''
After returning from the all-star game in Japan, Roth soon was hospitalized. Near the end and greatly weakened, he insisted on being brought back to his apartment on College Ave. to spend his final days. White, Theder and a number of teammates loaded him in an ambulance and took him home.
"I came first thing the next morning and he had passed away,'' Theder said.
"Everything happened in such a short period of time and he was gone,'' White said. "Why him?''
"He left us the same way he joined us: quiet and understated,'' Albrecht said.
Joe Roth died Feb. 19, 1977. The university honors his memory with the annual Joe Roth Game on the occasion of USC or UCLA playing at Memorial Stadium.
I always thought this guy was going to be the next great QB from California after
Steve Bartkowski. A tragic loss.......What if....
Joe Roth
Locker No. 12 at Memorial Stadium contains a helmet, jersey, pants, cleats, three rolls of tape, a team roster, a photo and two books. Standard stuff for an athlete's dressing stall except this one is sealed in Plexiglass.
The player with the locker next to this one, cornerback Syd'Quan Thompson, will not have to worry about being crowded by his neighbor to the left.
That's Joe Roth's locker. Thirty years ago today, the archetypal All-American boy died at 21 when a particularly virulent form of melanoma swept through his body for a second time.
Many of the men who coached him are now retired and reflective. The guys who played with him are men in their early 50s, busy with careers and families. At an age when young people realize their lives are just starting, Joe Roth's was ending.
The 30th anniversary of Roth's death sneaked up on people who knew him when he was an All-America quarterback at California in the mid 1970s. Days turn into years turn into decades but Roth is forever 21, locked in the flush of youth with his wavy blond hair and blue eyes and potential never to be realized.
"It's been 30 years already?'' said Roger Theder, offensive coordinator on Roth's teams at Cal under head coach Mike White. "He was one of those beautiful kids -- everything you want in a kid to coach. I have nothing but great memories. I can still see him today -- he was a good-looking kid.''
With the passage of time comes word of a possible movie in the works about Roth's life, perhaps a less treacly version of "Brian's Song'' or other schmaltzy efforts that summarize the foreshortened lives of star athletes.
"I think we all are beginning to realize the impact Joe had on a lot of different people,'' said White, Roth's coach in 1975 and '76. "The more people you talk to, the more you realize what an amazing guy he was, the way he lived out his life. Joe internally showed so much courage and didn't want anyone to feel sorry for him. He had supreme mental and physical toughness.''
Roth came to Cal from Grossmont Junior College in San Diego early in 1975, already having been through a cancer scare. That fall, he led the Bears to an 8-3 record as co-champions of what was then the Pac-8 Conference. Bolstered by running back Chuck Muncie and receivers Wesley Walker and Steve Rivera, Cal led the nation in total offense that year by averaging exactly the same yardage totals rushing and passing.
"People forget how good he was as a player because all we talk about is this young guy tragically dying,'' said Jack Clark, a football teammate of Roth's and now Cal's rugby coach. "Joe was really nimble. He could really move around the pocket. He had that quick, quick release. He threw darts all over the field. Calm, cool. It didn't seem like anything rattled him.''
Joe Roth, it seems, might have been Joe Montana a few years before Joe Montana became Joe Montana.
"He was great in the huddle because you never saw a flaw in his leadership,'' said Ted Albrecht, an offensive tackle on those Cal teams. "He never got frazzled. He was such a quiet leader. You appreciated his very low-key attitude.''
Sometime during the 1976 season, Roth found out his cancer had returned, but he kept it to himself. Only White knew what his 6-foot, 4-inch quarterback was really enduring as Cal posted a 5-6 record and Roth earned All-America honors. There was speculation he might go No. 1 in the NFL draft.
In a testament to the young man's fortitude, Roth managed to play in the Japan Bowl all-star game in January 1977, mere weeks before his death. White coached the West squad in that game.
"The whole mental and physical courage he displayed the last weeks and months of his life,'' White said. "Words are hard to express what he did and what he meant to Cal football specifically. After all these years, it's very obvious just how important Joe was to a lot of people and the university. There aren't many people who fit in that category.''
Albrecht, who played six years with the Chicago Bears, was one of Roth's teammates who did not know that the cancer had returned sometime in '76.
"He went through the entire season knowing his cancer had returned,'' said Albrecht, now a Chicago businessman and radio analyst for Northwestern football games. "He had to wake up every morning knowing his days were numbered and didn't share it with anyone. That's a lot of pain.''
Rather than canonize Roth for the strength and dignity he displayed in his dying days, Muncie preferred to remember his quarterback when the sky was clear and blue, before the dark clouds started massing.
"The thing I'd like to keep in perspective is he was a guy, a ballplayer, a kid who was really enjoying life,'' said Muncie, who now runs a football scouting service and a youth foundation. "He was still a young kid having fun, like all of us were. He liked to drink his beers and hang out with the guys. He was a team guy.
"I remember the first time he and I went out and had a few beers. It didn't take many, I tell you. He had two or three and he'd get a buzz and get all goofy. He had this smile on his face.''
Muncie, who played for the New Orleans Saints and San Diego Chargers in his career, said of Roth as a player, "He would have been as good as any quarterback who played the game. His poise, his ability to pick up an offense, the guy had the skills.''
After returning from the all-star game in Japan, Roth soon was hospitalized. Near the end and greatly weakened, he insisted on being brought back to his apartment on College Ave. to spend his final days. White, Theder and a number of teammates loaded him in an ambulance and took him home.
"I came first thing the next morning and he had passed away,'' Theder said.
"Everything happened in such a short period of time and he was gone,'' White said. "Why him?''
"He left us the same way he joined us: quiet and understated,'' Albrecht said.
Joe Roth died Feb. 19, 1977. The university honors his memory with the annual Joe Roth Game on the occasion of USC or UCLA playing at Memorial Stadium.
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Drazen Petrovic ,this guy was really starting to light up the 3 ball a real sharpshooter , couldnt belive it when i heard he died, rip drazie
NBA.com: Drazen Petrovic Bio
Drazen Petrovic ,this guy was really starting to light up the 3 ball a real sharpshooter , couldnt belive it when i heard he died, rip drazie
NBA.com: Drazen Petrovic Bio
NoNewbieca
EOG Dedicated
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
What if Bobby Orr played in an era with arthroscopic surgery for knees?
What if Pelle Lindbergh knew how to drive his car better?
What if Bo Jackson didn't suffer from the hip injury?
What if Barry Sanders decided not to retire (or demand a trade out of Detroit)?
What if Bobby Orr played in an era with arthroscopic surgery for knees?
What if Pelle Lindbergh knew how to drive his car better?
What if Bo Jackson didn't suffer from the hip injury?
What if Barry Sanders decided not to retire (or demand a trade out of Detroit)?
winkyduck
TYVM Morgan William!!!
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
I hate to say this and wish "ill" on anyone but I am GLAD he had his career cut short because of injuries. Bo Jackson is one of the BIGGEST M-F ASSHOLES EVER and the more pain and suffering he has to go thru the happier those of us who UNFORTUATELY had to deal with this cocksucker will be. If he dies a long, slow painful death it would make me almost as happy as if it was Tony Gwynn
I hate to say this and wish "ill" on anyone but I am GLAD he had his career cut short because of injuries. Bo Jackson is one of the BIGGEST M-F ASSHOLES EVER and the more pain and suffering he has to go thru the happier those of us who UNFORTUATELY had to deal with this cocksucker will be. If he dies a long, slow painful death it would make me almost as happy as if it was Tony Gwynn
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Jay Williams
Jay Williams
NoNewbieca
EOG Dedicated
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
winky - that's pretty harsh, but then again I don't know the man, I only knew the ability. It hurts when the humble superstar loses time in his prime to injury (like Bobby Orr) and much less when an ego-maniac gets a healthy dose of humble pie.
winky - that's pretty harsh, but then again I don't know the man, I only knew the ability. It hurts when the humble superstar loses time in his prime to injury (like Bobby Orr) and much less when an ego-maniac gets a healthy dose of humble pie.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Thurman Munson
Thurman Munson
raycabino
Long Live Wilson!
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
I know this sounds corny, but I wonder about my brother. He was a promising catcher before he broke his ankle. He was picked up by a minor league team. I wonder sometimes if he would have made it to the majors....then maybe he would be happy instead of being a miserable SOB that does nothing but drink, gamble and put everyone around him down.
I know this sounds corny, but I wonder about my brother. He was a promising catcher before he broke his ankle. He was picked up by a minor league team. I wonder sometimes if he would have made it to the majors....then maybe he would be happy instead of being a miserable SOB that does nothing but drink, gamble and put everyone around him down.
5 star bomb
EOG Master
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
that isnt corny. But a broken ankle ended his dream? That isnt a very serious injury, anyway I know a lot of people like him. I played on a Legion team that got 6 players drafted. I run into a lot of the guys that didnt get drafted and all they ever talk about is how much they miss playing ball and if they could of done something differently etc... I think about it too but I dont let it run my life
that isnt corny. But a broken ankle ended his dream? That isnt a very serious injury, anyway I know a lot of people like him. I played on a Legion team that got 6 players drafted. I run into a lot of the guys that didnt get drafted and all they ever talk about is how much they miss playing ball and if they could of done something differently etc... I think about it too but I dont let it run my life
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Yeah, he shattered it. He was never quite the same...still a great catcher, but not as great as he was. If he had been able to sign in the minors and start training with them like he planned, I really think he could have been one of the greats. He still had scouts coming to look at him when he played in the sunset league a few years later (once he was out of the Marines), but he was too old at that point.
Yeah, he shattered it. He was never quite the same...still a great catcher, but not as great as he was. If he had been able to sign in the minors and start training with them like he planned, I really think he could have been one of the greats. He still had scouts coming to look at him when he played in the sunset league a few years later (once he was out of the Marines), but he was too old at that point.
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Andre Agassi. While his tennis achievements are HOF material, I wonder what more he would have been if his heart would have played the game with him much earlier.
Andre Agassi. While his tennis achievements are HOF material, I wonder what more he would have been if his heart would have played the game with him much earlier.
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
We also had an AMAZING running back on my HS team that just stopped playing his senior year. Don't know why. He said it just wasn't fun anymore. The guy couldn't drop the ball if he tried...and there was just plain no stopping him once he had it...I'm not sure I've seen any football player faster or more agile than him. He would have gotten picked up by a top school, for sure.
We also had an AMAZING running back on my HS team that just stopped playing his senior year. Don't know why. He said it just wasn't fun anymore. The guy couldn't drop the ball if he tried...and there was just plain no stopping him once he had it...I'm not sure I've seen any football player faster or more agile than him. He would have gotten picked up by a top school, for sure.
raycabino
Long Live Wilson!
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Do you mean you wonder how much better he would have done if Brook wouldn't have drained all of his energy for some time?:+textinb3
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
The scouts all had Tom Brady read the same way, that is why he was drafted in the 6th. The bigger question is what if Drew Bledsoe doesn't get hurt? We might never know who Tom Brady was.
The scouts all had Tom Brady read the same way, that is why he was drafted in the 6th. The bigger question is what if Drew Bledsoe doesn't get hurt? We might never know who Tom Brady was.
Re: Who's your "What if....." player
Yeah, that too.
I get WHY he was drafted in the 6th, I'm just saying that it seems like a lot of his drive comes from that. If he had been picked before Manning, would he have the same drive to prove himself?
Yeah, that too.
I get WHY he was drafted in the 6th, I'm just saying that it seems like a lot of his drive comes from that. If he had been picked before Manning, would he have the same drive to prove himself?