Last thread of the night.....God

[wrigley]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

Wrigs buddy, to me that just seems fake...you either do or you don't, not just because you don't want to be left out 'in case'

Always have Belived in him never had any doubt he existed, off to bed now ill include you in my prayer tonight :thumbsup

 

[janus]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

You either believe that all this order is a random, natural event that keeps being held together by nothing.....or you believe that there is something supernatural out there. God by default. Exactly. No other choice can be possible.

... or you can believe neither given the lack of compelling evidence for either side. you have chosen to believe in the 'god by default', and thats all good & fine for you, but to label all atheists dumb while failing to adequately support your own position is silly.

 

[Illini]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

... or you can believe neither given the lack of compelling evidence for either side. you have chosen to believe in the 'god by default', and thats all good & fine for you, but to label all atheists dumb while failing to adequately support your own position is silly.

If you can explain how the earth revolves around a random star and uses it for life on a continual basis, the I'll consider taking back my "atheists are dumb" statement.

 

[The Prophet]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

WOULD ANYONE CARE TO PROVIDE A COMMON DEFINITION OF "GOD?"





.

 

[mofome]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

what did 'god' create? everything? there is probably life outside of earth. couldnt be that we're the one star, that we know of, that had the conditions to create life? there are a lot of religions, most people simply believe in theirs because of where they were born. thats not a good enough reason to be right or wrong. do you have to 'find god' to go to heaven? if someone kills me before i find god, but then they repent in jail because they're desperate, do they go to heaven while i go to hell....even though they took my chance at life? people tell me a lot of things, i dont find any actual answers. there is nothing i want more than to know there is a heaven, i just dont have any reason to believe that there is.

 

[janus]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

If you can explain how the earth revolves around a random star and uses it for life on a continual basis, the I'll consider taking back my "atheists are dumb" statement.

all due respect, but i never said god-believers were dumb. i am agnostic, i don't claim to know the unknowable. but if i did claim to not only know but stated that all others were dumb, i would expect someone might ask me to explain myself. in other words, the burden of proof is on you because you claim to have solved the age-old riddle simply by pondering it in your spare time. so... the floor is yours.

 

[mofome]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

all due respect, but i never said god-believers were dumb. i am agnostic, i don't claim to know the unknowable. but if i did claim to not only know but stated that all others were dumb, i would expect someone might ask me to explain myself. in other words, the burden of proof is on you because you claim to have solved the age-old riddle simply by pondering it in your spare time. so... the floor is yours.

always on point. maybe the sharpest poster here....

:cheers

 

[janus]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

always on point. maybe the sharpest poster here....

:cheers

:cheers

 

[Chuck Luck]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

i wonder if God is amused when people sit around and discuss whether or not he exists.

i say he is not amused.

 

[janus]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

i say he is not amused.

munchkin man says that god is the only person who can permit himself to be offended.... i think... ah fuck, let me get back to you in a bit. :+clueless

 

[mofome]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

munchkin man says that god is the only person who can permit himself to be offended.... i think... ah fuck, let me get back to you in a bit. :+clueless

:LMAO :LMAO :LMAO

 

[Illini]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

all due respect, but i never said god-believers were dumb. i am agnostic, i don't claim to know the unknowable. but if i did claim to not only know but stated that all others were dumb, i would expect someone might ask me to explain myself. in other words, the burden of proof is on you because you claim to have solved the age-old riddle simply by pondering it in your spare time. so... the floor is yours.

Nothing I could say would convince anyone, and I know that. But here are just a few of the things that I consider.

earth and sun relationship- sun has no relationship to earth. It's just a star. Yet the earth revolves around it and uses it for warmth. It also rotates on its axis and uses it for light. No life on earth would be possible without both the heat and the light that the sun provides. It's just a star, but it happens to hang out in an exact place that it needs to be at. And the earth keeps its revolutions on a precise schedule. Wow.

sex- what else needs to be said. Wow.

food- people have to eat to live, yet there also happens to be a food supply for us. And after I eat, I digest the food and use it for energy. I don't know how to digest food, but I do it everyday. My heart beats continually, and I pump blood througout my body all day and all night. I don't know how to pump blood, but I continue to do it. Wow.

oxygen and carbon dioxide- we need oxygen, and the plants need carbon dioxide. We produce the carbon dioxide, and the plants use it and produce the oxygen for us. Wow.

This is just a start, and it only scratches the surface of showing what incredible order there is in the universe. I think about these things and say, "duh." I understand that a few people won't. I don't have all the answers, and really don't have that many answers at all, but belief in God is a start.

 

[Illini]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

what did 'god' create? everything? there is probably life outside of earth. couldnt be that we're the one star, that we know of, that had the conditions to create life? there are a lot of religions, most people simply believe in theirs because of where they were born. thats not a good enough reason to be right or wrong. do you have to 'find god' to go to heaven? if someone kills me before i find god, but then they repent in jail because they're desperate, do they go to heaven while i go to hell....even though they took my chance at life? people tell me a lot of things, i dont find any actual answers. there is nothing i want more than to know there is a heaven, i just dont have any reason to believe that there is.

I am a very deep thinker and have many of the same questions as you. Many of my questions simply can never be answered, and I have learned to live with the ambiguity. There are a lot of issues I have with God, even though I believe without a doubt that he is real. I would say that the first thing you have to do is allow for the possibility of anything being true, and then define the absolutes, if any, that you come to believe. When I started thinking deeply, the only absolute that I came to believe was that there was a creator. But I had to ponder that. Once I knew I believed that, I just went from there. I certainly understand where you are at, and you ask some very fair questions.

 

[dirty]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

yet you can have a deity created from nothing?

good logic.

by the grace of the great and wonderful oz, of course.

(because because because because becau-u-use.... because of the wonderful things he does.)

Where reasoning ends, religion begins.

... and in case you're still wondering, the answer is: NO

based on the logic you've used so far, its clear you would only come to a "god by default" solution no matter how long you pondered.

... or you can believe neither given the lack of compelling evidence for either side. you have chosen to believe in the 'god by default', and thats all good & fine for you, but to label all atheists dumb while failing to adequately support your own position is silly.

what did 'god' create? everything? there is probably life outside of earth. couldnt be that we're the one star, that we know of, that had the conditions to create life? there are a lot of religions, most people simply believe in theirs because of where they were born. thats not a good enough reason to be right or wrong. do you have to 'find god' to go to heaven? if someone kills me before i find god, but then they repent in jail because they're desperate, do they go to heaven while i go to hell....even though they took my chance at life? people tell me a lot of things, i dont find any actual answers. there is nothing i want more than to know there is a heaven, i just dont have any reason to believe that there is.

all due respect, but i never said god-believers were dumb. i am agnostic, i don't claim to know the unknowable. but if i did claim to not only know but stated that all others were dumb, i would expect someone might ask me to explain myself. in other words, the burden of proof is on you because you claim to have solved the age-old riddle simply by pondering it in your spare time. so... the floor is yours.

some pretty Sharp posts...:cheers:cheers:cheers

 

[mofome]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

I am a very deep thinker and have many of the same questions as you. Many of my questions simply can never be answered, and I have learned to live with the ambiguity. There are a lot of issues I have with God, even though I believe without a doubt that he is real. I would say that the first thing you have to do is allow for the possibility of anything being true, and then define the absolutes, if any, that you come to believe. When I started thinking deeply, the only absolute that I came to believe was that there was a creator. But I had to ponder that. Once I knew I believed that, I just went from there. I certainly understand where you are at, and you ask some very fair questions.

my mind races with thoughts all day and most are about family and finding a peace with knowing that, one day, it will all be over. this is something i struggle with more often than not. how can we just not exist one day? what matters if its all for nothing? who cares whats invented if in 100 years we're all dust? its nice for now, but whats significant about it if there is a 100% chance that one day it will all be gone? i mean really...if everything thats good comes to an end, how good is anything? why dont bad things come to a positive beginning rather than great things come to a horrible end? honestly, i think i would rather have never existed than deal with what i'll feel when i lose my parents. i dont know how to deal with that. sure i will be left with great memories, but the pain wont be eased by that...it will probably be magnified. then if there was a heaven, i know my dad doesnt believe in it...so does he go to hell even though hes spent his life as one of the best teachers in the world. he spends his life teaching children but he has no reason to believe in god....so he goes to hell? that just makes no sense. if there is a heaven and a hell, i would rather spend my eternity in hell with my family than in heaven without them. is that a real choice? i cant believe these things.

 

[Illini]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

my mind races with thoughts all day and most are about family and finding a peace with knowing that, one day, it will all be over. this is something i struggle with more often than not. how can we just not exist one day? what matters if its all for nothing? who cares whats invented if in 100 years we're all dust? its nice for now, but whats significant about it if there is a 100% chance that one day it will all be gone? i mean really...if everything thats good comes to an end, how good is anything? why dont bad things come to a positive beginning rather than great things come to a horrible end? honestly, i think i would rather have never existed than deal with what i'll feel when i lose my parents. i dont know how to deal with that. sure i will be left with great memories, but the pain wont be eased by that...it will probably be magnified. then if there was a heaven, i know my dad doesnt believe in it...so does he go to hell even though hes spent his life as one of the best teachers in the world. he spends his life teaching children but he has no reason to believe in god....so he goes to hell? that just makes no sense. if there is a heaven and a hell, i would rather spend my eternity in hell with my family than in heaven without them. is that a real choice? i cant believe these things.

I think you're on the right track starting out. "How can we just not exist one day?" is a very good question. I think it's easy to believe in a soul that moves on and continues to live when the body dies. I think your mind will not have much trouble believing that, if you come to believe in God. I can't imagine losing my parents, especially my dad, who is my best friend. I truly believe that I will be in heaven with him someday, and it's still a terrible dread for me that he will be gone, and I'll have to deal with it for a lot of years. I would challenge you to search and ponder. Is there any possibility that there is no God? I can't answer that for you, but there is a mountain of evidence that to me, screams that God exists. I was able to resolve that question. From that point on, my mission was and still is to find out who God is. You seem burdened by these thoughts, and that's good. Does life have meaning, does your life serve a purpose? If not, nothing really matters, because we'll all be dead in 80 years. I see the universe, and it tells me that there is a much better plan for us than living for awhile and then passing away into nothingness.

Even though I've had many, many doubts about Christianity, I still believe. I still doubt, yet I believe. If there was a 1% chance that the next flight you were getting on was going to crash, I would bet that you would not get on it. If you think that there is even a 1% chance that the Bible is true, it's probably worth investigating. I don't like everything about God, but the beautiful thing I've been learning is that he doesn't require that from us. David was a fuck-up that was angry with God for much of his life, yet God honored his honesty. So much of what he wrote, I can relate to.

Don't take this as preaching. This is very out of character for me to even discuss this stuff. You will have to come up with your own beliefs. But it sounds like there is a depth to you that I see in myself. There's no better way to spend a lifetime than seeking answers to our inner questions.

peace to you

 

[Sound of Silence]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

If I knew I had the person I love the most to lose? I'd say whatever it takes to make sure I didn't lose them.

Myself? No.

Brings up one of my favorite new Sprinsgteen lyrics:

"Well if I had one wish for you in this god forsaken world, kid
It'd be that your mistakes will be your own
That your sins will be your own"

I forever want my mistakes to be MY mistakes. I never want anyone else have to shoulder the burden of my mistakes, especially my children or whoever I love the most.

 

[The Prophet]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible."

 

[dirty]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

Illini... The mind is very powerful and can make you believe in almost anything.

 

[cincy_]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

I'm not trying to tell anyone to be religious. Believing in God has nothing to do with religion. I'm telling them that if they are atheists, they are wrong, and need to ponder long enough until they realize it.

Why did you get the memo and I didn't?

If there was a God ... and he wanted to prove to me that there was God ... he sure as hell wouldn't send someone on a forum to deliver the message.

... and if God was omnipotent, I might be inclined to believe in his existance if he was a little less "obvious" ... at least covert and stealthy enough to make sure that you wouldn't be able to make the deduction.

My view: You might be right, and I may be right ... either way, I could care less.

Your view: You are right.

 

[Hache Man]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

Yes.

Of course there's a God. The Earth revolves around a random star, which just happens to provide enough heat and light to sustain life, but not enough to burn us up. And it just happens to keep revolving on a set schedule every single year. Is there a God? Duh.

You can't have order from nothing. I can think of hundreds of examples like the sun that logically point us to the fact that athiesm is the dumbest thought ever pondered by any human being.

Agreed (yes is my answer)

Ever heard of the theory one Christian Scientist gave?

The odds of life "just happening" can compared to a Tornado ripping through an airport junkyard, and when it has passed through, the tornado has not only magically assembled the airplane pieces/parts back together again, but they actually run as well!

Doctors/Scientists can't even cure the common cold & change their opinions on their beliefs regarding other things year after year, but they know how life began?!?.....:LMAO

 

[janus]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

Agreed (yes is my answer)

Ever heard of the theory one Christian Scientist gave?

The odds of life "just happening" can compared to a Tornado ripping through an airport junkyard, and when it has passed through, the tornado has not only magically assembled the airplane pieces/parts back together again, but they actually run as well!

Doctors/Scientists can't even cure the common cold & change their opinions on their beliefs regarding other things year after year, but they know how life began?!?.....:LMAO

did that so called christian scientist offer any logical backing of his own theory or did he just limit his weak efforts to ridiculing others? statements like those would be put into a more proper perspective if they all had the tagline "so that's why there must be a man in the sky". for example:


* "the earth revolves around a sun that has heat & stuff, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."

* "tornadoes don't put planes together, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."

* "doctors don't understand colds, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."

* "sex & food & poop exist, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."

* "my mammy says there is a man in the sky, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."


its all becoming clearer now.

 

[The General]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

I figured it would get to this point. Same ol debate. Not a thing wrong with a non believer nor a believer. 'Who are we to judge' and that doesn't have to come from the bible.

So much for a yes/no, LOL

 

[Journeyman]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

my mind races with thoughts all day and most are about family and finding a peace with knowing that, one day, it will all be over. this is something i struggle with more often than not. how can we just not exist one day? what matters if its all for nothing? who cares whats invented if in 100 years we're all dust? its nice for now, but whats significant about it if there is a 100% chance that one day it will all be gone? i mean really...if everything thats good comes to an end, how good is anything? why dont bad things come to a positive beginning rather than great things come to a horrible end? honestly, i think i would rather have never existed than deal with what i'll feel when i lose my parents. i dont know how to deal with that. sure i will be left with great memories, but the pain wont be eased by that...it will probably be magnified. then if there was a heaven, i know my dad doesnt believe in it...so does he go to hell even though hes spent his life as one of the best teachers in the world. he spends his life teaching children but he has no reason to believe in god....so he goes to hell? that just makes no sense. if there is a heaven and a hell, i would rather spend my eternity in hell with my family than in heaven without them. is that a real choice? i cant believe these things.

great great post, and exactly how I feel.

 

[Journeyman]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

I may as well say yes and be like Wrigley, 'in case it happens'....not trying to be funny, but this is what I think many do...just go with it and hope, have faith.

The 'how did this all get here' question is the biggest reason I believe it is possible, that and my instict not to do anything seriously wrong (because God is out there) so in that way my insticts overrule my logic...and of course I am just as confused as ever.

 

[janus]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

I figured it would get to this point. Same ol debate. Not a thing wrong with a non believer nor a believer. 'Who are we to judge' and that doesn't have to come from the bible.

So much for a yes/no, LOL

it doesnt look like the same old debate... nobody has stepped up from the ranks of the atheists yet to try to prove non-existence. i've seen one word answers on both sides, and a few believers who threw in statements regarding the ridiculousness of someone not believing as they do. the only debate i've seen on here so far is others questioning whether those folks have the strength in their own reasoning to be able to call anyone else's view ridiculous. huge difference.

 

[cincy_]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

If there was a 1% chance that the next flight you were getting on was going to crash, I would bet that you would not get on it. If you think that there is even a 1% chance that the Bible is true, it's probably worth investigating.

Let me add up:

1% chance that the Bible is true
0.7% chance that the Koran is true
1.2% chance that the Ramayana is true
0.8% chance ....

... and the list goes on.

... and as a result, I am so scared about going to hell that I spend 34 hours a week reading 15 books from 12 religions as insurance.

 

[Chuck Luck]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible."

so true. i was a non-believer until i needed him and he was there..........

 

[Chuck Luck]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

did that so called christian scientist offer any logical backing of his own theory or did he just limit his weak efforts to ridiculing others? statements like those would be put into a more proper perspective if they all had the tagline "so that's why there must be a man in the sky". for example:


* "the earth revolves around a sun that has heat & stuff, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."

* "tornadoes don't put planes together, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."

* "doctors don't understand colds, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."

* "sex & food & poop exist, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."

* "my mammy says there is a man in the sky, so that's why there must be a man in the sky."


its all becoming clearer now.

:+clueless

 

[janus]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

:+clueless

easy there, chuck... that's the official emoticon for Agnostics Anonymous.

 

[dirty]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

The reason Scientists can't cure the common cold is the strain Evolves, that is right evolution does occer, into a new strain constantly.

 

[janus]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

The reason Scientists can't cure the common cold is the strain Evolves, that is right evolution does occer, into a new strain constantly.

:cheers

very good point.

 

[Illini]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

You can't have order without a creator. It doesn't prove any one religion is the right one, but if you can't look at the earth and see intelligent design, you're missing the boat. I have a couple friends that are atheists, and it's not something that affects our friendship in any way. But do I respect their views on this subject? No. Do they respect mine? No.

 

[wrigley]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible."

:cheers

Bible Verse Of The Day
Thursday, October 18, 2007

Bible Verse Of The Day
— Hebrews 3:12-14 —
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

 

[Illini]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

Illini... The mind is very powerful and can make you believe in almost anything.

I thought that the brain was just matter that evolved from nothing? How can it have any power?

 

[mofome]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

i think its kinda silly to take a set of circumstances and then define their meaning aftward. sure everything is amazing....but what if we all could live on wood chips and had to had eyes that didnt get hurt by pieces of sand. that would be amazing too.

 

[cincy_]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

But do I respect their views on this subject? No. Do they respect mine? No.

You may be different Illini, but for the most part, it goes like this:

• Religious people don't respect atheist views
• Atheists don't give a hoot about religious views

 

[Munchkin Man]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

Greetings To All:

The Munchkin Man's favorite radio show is The Rush Limbaugh Show.

Rush Limbaugh has proclaimed many times that his radio broadcasting talents are "on loan from God."

That alone is good enough for the Munchkin Man.

Munchkin Man

 

[joeybagadonuts]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

hell no there isnt

 

[Chuck Luck]

Re: Last thread of the night.....God

we shall see