any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
- Thread starter andrew748
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Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
shall i help?
Neteller founder pleads guilty in online gambling case in NY - International Herald Tribune
shall i help?
Neteller founder pleads guilty in online gambling case in NY - International Herald Tribune
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
What did you expect? Just like the Brits in the BOS case, he'll pay his fine, and live out his probation term back in his home in Canada. I doubt that he will face any jail time. Another case of the DOJ offering a "parachute" to foreigners.
What did you expect? Just like the Brits in the BOS case, he'll pay his fine, and live out his probation term back in his home in Canada. I doubt that he will face any jail time. Another case of the DOJ offering a "parachute" to foreigners.
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
so if this cash is illegal, i don't think that you will be getting it back do you?
also if this cash is illegal isn't there a possibility that you are accomplices to a crime?
obviously the above speculation is aimed at guys still with funds confiscated from neteller by the doj.
so if this cash is illegal, i don't think that you will be getting it back do you?
also if this cash is illegal isn't there a possibility that you are accomplices to a crime?
obviously the above speculation is aimed at guys still with funds confiscated from neteller by the doj.
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
Neteller held about $2 billion... THey only seized $55mm
Just cause someone pleads to something when there is no law that he broke, That doesnt make you guilty.
He pled to promoting gambling. If you just gambled, you aren't part...
Stop worrying so much.
-Sean
Neteller held about $2 billion... THey only seized $55mm
Just cause someone pleads to something when there is no law that he broke, That doesnt make you guilty.
He pled to promoting gambling. If you just gambled, you aren't part...
Stop worrying so much.
-Sean
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
i'm not worried it's UKland thing
though it is interesting that the other chap is pleading not guilty
cool
i'm not worried it's UKland thing
though it is interesting that the other chap is pleading not guilty
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
The other guy always said he would plead not guilty regardless....
The other guy also lives in CA.
This guy lives in the Carribean and probably couldn't jump high enough when they offered him his passport to plead guilty...
Choice A: Leave $5mm in bail and keep about $95mm and leave the US.
Choice B: Face 30 years in prison...
Sean
The other guy always said he would plead not guilty regardless....
The other guy also lives in CA.
This guy lives in the Carribean and probably couldn't jump high enough when they offered him his passport to plead guilty...
Choice A: Leave $5mm in bail and keep about $95mm and leave the US.
Choice B: Face 30 years in prison...
Sean
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
ty for the explanation sean
i'll take A aswell please
ty for the explanation seani'll take A aswell please
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
This has nothing to do with getting "Neteller" information. On the surface it looks like a Neteller investigation and prosecution. That is all secondary. Right now the FBI is digging through the tunnels finding where all of the funds have been going to Merchant accounts with the cooperation of Neteller themselves. With this information the DOJ can build cases against sportsbooks and individuals worldwide. When they uncover the merchant bank accounts of these sportsbooks this will ultimately lead them to foreign accounts where transfers have been made that are held by the principals of these companies. Players accounts are trivial compared to what they are actually seeking out and will uncover. When people like TEJ begin to run for cover the writing is clearly on the wall. By this coming fall the real $hit will have hit the fan. Like the BOS case, which involved a publicly traded company, the feds will have the tale of the tape for all of the big players in the industry, resulting in indictments for wire fraud and tax evasion and the like.
This has nothing to do with getting "Neteller" information. On the surface it looks like a Neteller investigation and prosecution. That is all secondary. Right now the FBI is digging through the tunnels finding where all of the funds have been going to Merchant accounts with the cooperation of Neteller themselves. With this information the DOJ can build cases against sportsbooks and individuals worldwide. When they uncover the merchant bank accounts of these sportsbooks this will ultimately lead them to foreign accounts where transfers have been made that are held by the principals of these companies. Players accounts are trivial compared to what they are actually seeking out and will uncover. When people like TEJ begin to run for cover the writing is clearly on the wall. By this coming fall the real $hit will have hit the fan. Like the BOS case, which involved a publicly traded company, the feds will have the tale of the tape for all of the big players in the industry, resulting in indictments for wire fraud and tax evasion and the like.
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
Below is a quote by JC on this Neteller plea crap from another forum. I don't usually bring quotes by other people that contributed to other forums here, but the statement struct me, and I wanted to share it here for everyone
"To the case at hand with Neteller, these guys make me sick. First of all, with their resources, and the current climate, they had no business crossing through the US, let alone living in Malibu.
Once they were caught they should have fought. Not just them, but Neteller the company. Instead everybody rolls.
This is a giant shakedown under color of authority. The gov't will net $100 million here.
If people don't fight and stand up for themselves, nothing will ever change. When people roll, everybody loses. If they couldn't take the heat, they had no business being in that business, particularly after my case. They certainly had no business being in the US.
There were certainly legitimate arguments that could be made before a jury in their case.
As for Neteller, something I'll say about them as a company. They were hardly angels. They would take any merchant, licensed or not, regardless of their past. People would get scammed by known offshore con men with the help of Neteller. Whenever the victims tried to get help from Neteller, their attitude was it wasn't their problem."
Below is a quote by JC on this Neteller plea crap from another forum. I don't usually bring quotes by other people that contributed to other forums here, but the statement struct me, and I wanted to share it here for everyone
"To the case at hand with Neteller, these guys make me sick. First of all, with their resources, and the current climate, they had no business crossing through the US, let alone living in Malibu.
Once they were caught they should have fought. Not just them, but Neteller the company. Instead everybody rolls.
This is a giant shakedown under color of authority. The gov't will net $100 million here.
If people don't fight and stand up for themselves, nothing will ever change. When people roll, everybody loses. If they couldn't take the heat, they had no business being in that business, particularly after my case. They certainly had no business being in the US.
There were certainly legitimate arguments that could be made before a jury in their case.
As for Neteller, something I'll say about them as a company. They were hardly angels. They would take any merchant, licensed or not, regardless of their past. People would get scammed by known offshore con men with the help of Neteller. Whenever the victims tried to get help from Neteller, their attitude was it wasn't their problem."
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
NETeller's Other Co-Founder John LeFebvre likely to plead guilty to conspiracy
written July 1, 2007
EOG has learned that Neteller's other founder, John LeFebvre, is already in the process of joining his partner Stephen Lawrence and pleading guilty to Conspiracy.
NETeller Plc co-founder Stephen Lawrence pled guilty on Friday in U.S. Federal Court to one count of conspiracy in the ongoing case brought against the company's founders. Along with John Lefebvre, Lawrence, 47, was arrested in January over NETeller's facilitation of money transfers between U.S. citizens and offshore gambling sites.
The details of this will be key. The charges being dropped to one count of conspiracy is pretty favorable to Mr. Lawrence.
What I really wonder is whether the one count he is pleading guilty to makes any mention of poker; remember that Neteller also foolishly funded these accounts which are clearly illegal under US law.
But, according to Antigua's recent victory at the WTO, who is to say what will happen?
One thing for sure: any time the DOJ gets what it wants in these cases it is bad for us to one degree or another.
By cooperating, they may not have to do a single day in jail. And it's not clear from the news reports how much money they will have to return.
Many US customers are concerned that this latest developments may effect their chances of getting paid out adversely.
I disagree and here is why according to an insider discussing Stephen Lawrence's plea:
1) Of course he pled guilty, that had about a 99.9% chance of happening (there's a reason for those six continuances).
2) The 100 million is from his personal funds (with the caveat of 'jointly and severably liable', but that liability will only be shared with future guilty pleaders, ie, LeFebvre).
3) Neteller has nothing to do with these fines at all, nor do our funds have anything to do with them.
4) This has been a sports betting case all along and has nothing to do with poker. this does not mean that the DOJ will not eventually go after, say, epassporte, whose founder is conveniently based in California, but it does mean that epassporte's lawyers evidently believe that poker is not a DOJ issue at this time.
NETeller's Other Co-Founder John LeFebvre likely to plead guilty to conspiracy
written July 1, 2007
EOG has learned that Neteller's other founder, John LeFebvre, is already in the process of joining his partner Stephen Lawrence and pleading guilty to Conspiracy.
NETeller Plc co-founder Stephen Lawrence pled guilty on Friday in U.S. Federal Court to one count of conspiracy in the ongoing case brought against the company's founders. Along with John Lefebvre, Lawrence, 47, was arrested in January over NETeller's facilitation of money transfers between U.S. citizens and offshore gambling sites.
The details of this will be key. The charges being dropped to one count of conspiracy is pretty favorable to Mr. Lawrence.
What I really wonder is whether the one count he is pleading guilty to makes any mention of poker; remember that Neteller also foolishly funded these accounts which are clearly illegal under US law.
But, according to Antigua's recent victory at the WTO, who is to say what will happen?
One thing for sure: any time the DOJ gets what it wants in these cases it is bad for us to one degree or another.
By cooperating, they may not have to do a single day in jail. And it's not clear from the news reports how much money they will have to return.
Many US customers are concerned that this latest developments may effect their chances of getting paid out adversely.
I disagree and here is why according to an insider discussing Stephen Lawrence's plea:
1) Of course he pled guilty, that had about a 99.9% chance of happening (there's a reason for those six continuances).
2) The 100 million is from his personal funds (with the caveat of 'jointly and severably liable', but that liability will only be shared with future guilty pleaders, ie, LeFebvre).
3) Neteller has nothing to do with these fines at all, nor do our funds have anything to do with them.
4) This has been a sports betting case all along and has nothing to do with poker. this does not mean that the DOJ will not eventually go after, say, epassporte, whose founder is conveniently based in California, but it does mean that epassporte's lawyers evidently believe that poker is not a DOJ issue at this time.
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
If you owned a sportsbook and had a neteller merchant account, you better get your ass out of the U.S. and get your money into banks that do not allow U.S. seizure.
Of good news, the St Louis court is allowing the WTO decision to be entered as a potential complete defense for Carruthers... The courts are not always on the side of the DOJ. They do sometimes look at laws.
Sean
If you owned a sportsbook and had a neteller merchant account, you better get your ass out of the U.S. and get your money into banks that do not allow U.S. seizure.
Of good news, the St Louis court is allowing the WTO decision to be entered as a potential complete defense for Carruthers... The courts are not always on the side of the DOJ. They do sometimes look at laws.
Sean
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
Will this decision cause any here in the US to close any offshore account? While I had no funds tied up in Neteller and claimed my winnings each year; I am strongly thinking of closing my one offshore account. The worry of even placing a wager now seems to be outweighted by any possible consequences; even if a longshot.
Am I the only one thinking this way?
Will this decision cause any here in the US to close any offshore account? While I had no funds tied up in Neteller and claimed my winnings each year; I am strongly thinking of closing my one offshore account. The worry of even placing a wager now seems to be outweighted by any possible consequences; even if a longshot.
Am I the only one thinking this way?
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
I have no money offshore.. It won't make me close accounts, but it will prevent me from reupping for football.
The feds are not going to arrest you for betting. They simply don't have the time, energy, jails, or laws to do so.
But now with Neteller rolling, the Feds will have the name, account info, etc for all of the books and their owners.
Before the Feds went after public companies since they had this info.
I expect a lot of indictments coming soon... Hopefully the owners are smart enough to be out of the US and to have their funds in non-cooperating banks, but I think many of them are retarded.
Sean
I have no money offshore.. It won't make me close accounts, but it will prevent me from reupping for football.
The feds are not going to arrest you for betting. They simply don't have the time, energy, jails, or laws to do so.
But now with Neteller rolling, the Feds will have the name, account info, etc for all of the books and their owners.
Before the Feds went after public companies since they had this info.
I expect a lot of indictments coming soon... Hopefully the owners are smart enough to be out of the US and to have their funds in non-cooperating banks, but I think many of them are retarded.
Sean
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
yeah, but might they make an example of some small bettor?
See Shrink's above comment:" ........ it is bad for us in one degree or another."
yeah, but might they make an example of some small bettor?
See Shrink's above comment:" ........ it is bad for us in one degree or another."
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
They will never go after bettors. They don't have the laws to do so.
Some state might, but most states don't give a crap...
There is no federal law against betting. The feds tried once in 1981 and lost in court and the ruling has never been challenged.
Plus even if they tried to apply the wire act, the DOJ has published reports saying it does not go after the bettor. Some bettors would fight (only facing a few years - not 30) and the feds would lose some cases.
The feds are much happier throwing 30 years, Rico, and laundering at bookis with 100s of millions. If they come after me, they'll have to settle for 2 tvs, 2 couches, 3 laptops and a bed.. NOt much sense in that.
Sean
They will never go after bettors. They don't have the laws to do so.
Some state might, but most states don't give a crap...
There is no federal law against betting. The feds tried once in 1981 and lost in court and the ruling has never been challenged.
Plus even if they tried to apply the wire act, the DOJ has published reports saying it does not go after the bettor. Some bettors would fight (only facing a few years - not 30) and the feds would lose some cases.
The feds are much happier throwing 30 years, Rico, and laundering at bookis with 100s of millions. If they come after me, they'll have to settle for 2 tvs, 2 couches, 3 laptops and a bed.. NOt much sense in that.
Sean
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
I just feel that this Neteller affair has a look of the BOS case, similarly the DOJ let some people "gently" off the hook to get the bigger fish. Whenever a foreign company like Neteller consents to open up the books to the feds it can't be good, especially void of an indictment.
I just feel that this Neteller affair has a look of the BOS case, similarly the DOJ let some people "gently" off the hook to get the bigger fish. Whenever a foreign company like Neteller consents to open up the books to the feds it can't be good, especially void of an indictment.
Re: any neteller news you guys might want to go and find out about?
Yes - they obviously want the names/contact info for the owners of offshore shops...
I wonder how many used real names to set up accounts at neteller...
Gonna get very interesting with the St Louis court letting DC introduce the WTO ruling as a possible blanket defense. If the feds lose that the witch hunt is done.
In any case, I dont' think this fall is a good time to have much money offshore...
Sean
Yes - they obviously want the names/contact info for the owners of offshore shops...
I wonder how many used real names to set up accounts at neteller...
Gonna get very interesting with the St Louis court letting DC introduce the WTO ruling as a possible blanket defense. If the feds lose that the witch hunt is done.
In any case, I dont' think this fall is a good time to have much money offshore...
Sean
