THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

THE SHRINK · Feb 13, 2007

Since some of you weren't around to read this when it first became available, I thought I'd post it here for all to read and comment about...

It is quite long but truly worth the read if you like gambling on Sports!!!

The Computer Group was the first modern betting ring, able — with the help of the gambler Billy Walters and his national network of bettors — to wager millions of dollars each week. The foundation was laid by Michael Kent, a naive 34-year-old computer expert, who had spent seven years constructing the first successful programs for handicapping football and basketball games. Settling in Las Vegas, Kent found a friend in Dr. Ivan Mindlin, an orthopedic surgeon who showed a strong interest in this brave, new science of computer betting 

The Doctor 
His enemies, who are many, exult in spreading rumors that portray Ivan Mindlin as a doctor ruined by his gambling. They say that he would listen to baseball games while performing surgery to the detriment of his patients, and that he would leave the operating room to gather up the scores. In reality, Dr. Mindlin enjoys an excellent reputation as an orthopedic surgeon, according to three respected Las Vegas attorneys who specialize in medical cases — all of whom approved Mindlin to give objective medical examinations for use in court cases. "A doctor would have to be highly thought of to be approved by both sides in a case," says attorney Bruce Alverson, who lauds Dr. Mindlin. Attorney Neil Galatz expresses sadness over Mindlin’s recent legal troubles with the Computer Group. "It’s a shame," he says, "because he was a fine doctor." 

Lem Banker, the famous sports bettor, says he has been a friend of Dr. Mindlin’s for 30 years, since he served as house physician for hotels on the Las Vegas strip. "He was my doctor," says Banker. "I actually showed him some of the finer points of handicapping. Sometimes we’d stop into the hotels and go partners, shooting craps. I had a lot of respect for his mind." 

Though the doctor reportedly had a good run playing the horses, one of his partners says that Mindlin was a loser betting on ballgames — that by1980, the doctor had run up a $100,000 debt to a pair of New York bettors, Stanley Tomchin and Jimmy Evart. Dr. Mindlin was able to work off that debt in October 1980, when Michael Kent dropped by (like manna from heaven) to discuss his computer program for handicapping football and basketball games. 

As he spoke, Michael Kent could not have been very impressive to a man like Ivan Mindlin. Kent was something of a Lt. Colombo in that regard. He did not speak elegantly. He wore drab clothes. He said he had grown up in Chicago as a Cubs fan. And he looked like a Chicago Cubs fan, just in from the bleachers. To Dr. Mindlin he must have looked like a pigeon, with a beard and glasses. 

Kent said he had grown weary of betting the games himself. What really tired him, he said with all sincerity, was having to deal with such large amounts of money. The chores of betting were wearing him out. He says he and Dr. Mindlin agreed: Kent forecasts the games, Mindlin makes the bets, and they split the winnings 50-50. 

With their handshake, the Computer Group was formed. And from that day forward, Dr. Mindlin took it upon himself to insulate Michael Kent from the outside world, just as Kent had wished. Kent was left alone to work with the numbers, while Mindlin took care of the streets. Mindlin apparently loved the streets, where he was deemed something of a Renaissance man, a street-smart manager who knew how to move truckloads of money and an intellectual genius as well. As time went on and the group’s profits soared, he began to take more and more credit, until it was common knowledge throughout Las Vegas that he — Dr. Ivan Mindlin — was the inventor of the Computer Group’s invaluable program. 

In March 1986. Sports Illustrated became the first national publication to report the story of the Computer Group. Dr. Ivan Mindlin explained to the magazine that he had taught himself computer programming while serving on the faculty at Monmouth Medical Center in Long Branch, N.J., the first hospital in the country to have an IBM computerized record-keeping system. Mindlin told an intricate tale, of how he’d run 25,000 past college basketball games through computer services from coast to coast so see how accurate the pregame spreads were against the final score. The magazine reported that Mindlin "devised his own programs to ‘make a number’ on each game, and that he serves as the alleged mathematical mastermind behind the mysterious Computer Group, which just might be the biggest known sports betting ring ever established anywhere." The name of Michael Kent was mentioned nowhere in the story. 

Though many members of the Computer Group might have thought that Dr. Mindlin was the grand inventor, there is very little to support that view. Those partners of Dr. Mindlin’s who agreed to give interviews all maintained that Michael Kent invented the group’s program for handicapping football and basketball games. The only program Dr. Mindlin produced was for betting on major league baseball, and they say it was a failure. 
Dr. Mindlin has declined to comment on this and all other matters. His attorney, Morris Goldings, is evasive when asked who invented the group’s programs. "We’re not getting into the vanity of it," he said recently from his car phone. Last February, however, Goldings said bluntly: "What does Kent say? That he was the brains and Mindlin was the beard? That's our position too." 

Each day Kent and his brother John collected the statistical data for every team, fed it into the computer, updated their program. fine-tuned all of the forecasts and then dumped them into a computer file to which Mindlin had access. From that point on. Kent —who was either too busy or too gullible to notice the fence that Mindlin was constructing around him — abdicated all responsibility to the doctor. 

Dr. Mindlin’s responsibility was so relay the information to Stanley Tomchin and a few other beards (or betting agents), who would survey the market and make the bets. Those phone calls and his accounting duties for the group were the extent of Mindlin’s workload, but other matters kept him busy. 

To the doctor’s credit, the Computer Group grew very quickly under his direction. As they were beginning to earn millions each season, Dr. Mindlin was injured in a 1981 car accident in Florida, which left him unable to perform surgery. He applied for disability insurance, and his practice was limited to giving expert testimony in medical cases. 
As his reputation as a gambler grew, he was able to strike up an acquaintance with Irwin Molaksy, mighty Las Vegas developer with whom Mindlin reportedly shared "his" computerized information in exchange for Molasky’s friendship and all the avenues it might open up to him. 

Now street-famous for his work with the Computer Group, Dr. Mindlin entered into the commodities business. Once more he turned to Michael Kent and Kent’s friend, Mark Ricci who began work on a program for predicting the price of commodities futures. Based on their efforts, Dr. Mindlin farmed a private commodities firm he called Commend, which may have served him in several ways. For one, he allegedly was able to launder money through Commend. Michael Kent’s brother, John, in a sworn deposition last year. testified that he received $112,695 from Commend for his work on the Computer Group’s sports data base. John Kent testified that he never did any work for Commend. 

Dr. Mindlin also found that commodities could serve as another point of contact with Irwin Molasky, who invested with him through Commend, according to Molasky’s attorney Stanley Hunterton. 

Mindlin also established a relationship with Dominic Spinale, who reportedly was a smalltime hoodlum with ties to Chicago mobster Tony Spilotro. Spinale happened to be under investigation by the FBI at the time his name was being used by Mindlin to open a betting account at the Stardust Hotel. If Mindlin could change one thing, he would probably never have become friendly with Spinale, which might have averted all of the troubles that engulf him today. 

The Feds 
Special Agent Thomas B. Noble has developed quite a reputation in the FBI for his six-year investigation of the Computer Group. Quite sad, really. "He got himself in a jam," says a fellow special agent. "He was a rookie when this thing started. Everybody was saying, ‘Forget about it, you haven’t got anything.’ But, somehow, he convinced one of his superiors that it was bookmaking, and got him to go along with it. He (Noble] is always saying how every case he’s working on is the greatest thing. In the end, it never works out." 

Thomas Noble says that joining the FBI was "just something I had always wanted to do." He was made a special agent in 1982 and was assigned to Las Vegas a year later. He had not been there long when a gambling investigation of Dominic Spinale led him to Dr. Ivan Mindlin, who had opened a betting account at the Stardust Hotel in Spinale’s name. A muted alarm began to ring between the ears of Thomas Noble. This had the look of a betting operation run by La Cosa Nostra. The Mafia. Organized crime. 

Soon after he had been questioned by the FBI about Spinale, Dr. Mindlin began to spend more time at his house in Vail, Colo. A second alarm went off. The subject seemed to be distancing himself from Spinale, his LCN (La Cosa Nostra) contact. Noble traced a check endorsed by Spinale to an account maintained by Michael Kent Kent referred the FBI’s inquiries to his attorney. Another alarm. Michael Kent had the same attorney as Ivan Mindlin Spinale was next observed by FBI operatives associating with a young blonde subject named Glen Walker, who walked with a pronounced limp (the result of a high school football injury). Walker was trailed to an establishment called "C&B Collection Agency." Further investigation indicated that the "C&B Collection Agency" was not actually a collection agency but was in fact the front for a gambling operation. Informants led special agent Noble to believe that Walker represented the Computer Group, the most successful gambling ring in the city, the gambling ring in which Dr. Mindlin was an admitted member. The alarm in Noble’s head was now whistling like a steaming tea kettle. 

Noble respectfully informed his superiors that he believed he had discovered one of the largest illegal bookmaking operations in the nation. The distinction between bookmakers and mere bettors is an important one. Though federal prosecution of illegal bookmakers declined in the 1980s. the government still enjoys good legal footing in such cases, because it can easily be proved that bookmakers are in the business of illegal gambling. It is much more difficult to prosecute the mere bettor, because the laws weren’t clearly written to apprehend him. In a 1981 case in Rhode lsland (U.S. v. Robert Barborian and Anthony Lauro), the U.S. District Court ruled that the use of telephones or other wire communication for interstate gambling "does not cover an individual bettor, even if the bettor wagered substantial sums and displayed sophistication of an expert in his knowledge of odds making." 

But special agent Noble was certain that he was chasing bookmakers. More agents were assigned to aid Thomas Noble. Surveillance was increased. Wire taps were approved in December 1964. Every day was a new adventure. Two years with the bureau and he was about to crumble the LCN’s finest bookmaking ring with one squeeze of his fist. Had it all started so quickly for J. Edgar Hoover? 

"Through legally intercepted conversations," wrote Noble, forcing himself to sit at his desk long enough to compose this sworn affidavit in January 1985 while bookmakers were making book outside, "this investigation has determined that Ivan Mindlin directs William Thurman Walters on the placing of what are believed to be layoff’ bets for the ‘Computer’ group. Walters operates a large bookmaking operation which be uses to place bets on desired games..." 

This allegation was the keystone of special agent Noble’s investigation. Layoff bets, by definition, are made exclusively by bookmakers wishing to protect themselves against large losses by making bets with other bookmakers. 

"Besides this operation," Noble continued, "Walters controls a bookmaking operation under the guise of C&B Collection Agency. This second bookmaking operation is run by Glen Andrews Walker who uses the premises and facilities of C&B Collection Agency as a bookmaker’s wire room... 

The big day was January 19, 1985, the eve of Super Bowl XIX, in which San Francisco would crush Miami, 38-16. The weekend would prove to be even more momentous for special agent Thomas Noble. He had requested 43 separate raids to take place in 23 cities in 16 states — perhaps the largest series of coordinated gambling raids in history. "Historically," wrote Noble in requesting the raids, "(during) the weekend wherein the National Football League holds its ‘Super Bowl’ championship, the betting volume for bookmakers is very high." 

He was right on. The members of the Computer Group were caught redhanded. Betting ledgers and hundreds of thousands of incriminating dollars were seized. All that remained before Thomas B. Noble could ascend toward the top of the FBI like a rocket toward the stars was this matter of legal paperwork. He simply had to prove that the Computer Group was an illegal bookmaking operation, that it was in fact a strong arm of the LCN. 

"He said that to me once," recalls Billy Walters. "Noble said to me 'We're closing in on your friends in La Cosa Nostra.’ I’m telling you, the guy’s read too many comic books.’" 

The Raids Michael Kent and his brother, Bill, had been invited to spend the Super Bowl weekend at the home of Dr. Mindlin in Vail. Colorado. Before he left Las Vegas, Michael Kent was asked to run a couple of errands for Mindlin. First, he received cash and checks from Billy Nelson, the gambler who had originally brought Kent and Mindlin together and who now served as an aide to Billy Walters in the Computer Group. Next Kent visited the cashier’s cage at the Horseshoe Casino, where he showed the cashier a dollar bill scrawled with a series of handwritten numbers, a password of sorts. The cashier handed Kent cash from the account of Billy Walters. That week Michael Kent carried some $500,000 in cashier’s checks and perhaps $100.000 cash to Vail, for delivery to Dr. Mindlin. 

Kent says his brother Bill happened to be sitting on the doorstep of Mindlin’s home in Vail on Saturday, Jan. 19. when he was approached by three men identifying themselves as FBI agents. "One guy tried to kick the door in," Michael Kent says. "Bill said. ‘What did you do that for?’ The door was unlocked. Bill reached over and opened it." 

The FBI took down the names and addresses of the Kent brothers, and then Michael Kent sat and watched television while the FBI rummaged through the house, confiscating money, records and gambling paraphernalia. An FBI agent was careful not so obstruct Kent’s view while he was watching television. "I thought that was rather polite," Kent says. "They let us come and go as we pleased. I remember we went out for lunch - Ivan too. Ivan seemed to be taking it very well. He didn’t seem to be too overly concerned." Indeed, the doctor simply turned around and began his own investigation of the FBI. Sources say that Mindlin, in his uniquely audacious manner, hired a private investigator to follow special agent Noble. 

But Michael Kent wasn’t taking it very well at all. He had been detained by police only once before, he says. for driving with a loud muffler. "It’s a bad crime in Goldsberg, Pennsylvania," he explained in a deposition. The night of the Vail raid he would return to Las Vegas so find she FBI raiding his condominium as well as the homes of his partners. Vacationing in Florida, Billy Walters and Billy Nelson were also raided that day. Clearly they were all in some sort of trouble. He says it struck him then how very little he knew about the group he had created. 

One year earlier, special agent Thomas Noble had contacted Michael Kent about the check that had been endorsed by Dominic Spinale. At that time Kent had listened to Dr. Mindlin, who advised him not so worry. But, this matter of FBI raids was much more serious. At the advice of special agent Noble, Kent says he hired his own lawyer, separate from Mindlin. Kent was referred to attorney Steven Brooks in Boston. As Brooks learned more about she gambling operation, he urged Kent to take precautions that would protect him from Mindlin. "I would tell Ivan that I wanted to do things differently on the advice of my lawyer," Kent says. "Ivan would say, ‘Oh, don’t listen to him. What does he know? He’s a schmuck.’" 

Kent says he finally came so understand Mindlin’s priorities. But Kent’s attorney believes his client might still be loyal to Dr. Mindlin to this day, if not for the FBI’s frightening raids five years ago. "Remember, Michael thought everything was fine back then." Brooks says. "He had no idea that he should suspect Mindlin of anything." 

The Beard 
Dale Conway says he was sitting as his desk, placing a bet over the phone from his Salt Lake home, when he stood to answer a knock at the door. In his driveway he could see a postal service truck. Conway opened the door to receive his mail and a man shouted, "FBI!" Suddenly, he claims, several G-Men came surging into his living room. 

"They ran upstairs so where my boy David was playing in his room, Conway remembers. "He was just 12 years old. He’s sitting on the floor playing. They knocked on the door and I guess he didn’t answer quick enough, because they just busted the door down. The door’s still all busted. I just left it like it was." 

FBI records show that Dale Conway’s telephones had been wiretapped prior to the Jan. 19, 1985 raid of his home. He says he had been making bets of $1,000 and less for Billy Walters, whom he met at a poker tournament in Las Vegas. "I don’t see what’s the big deal about betting on a ballgame," says Conway, 61, who has since been indicted for his part in the Computer Group. 

The government seemed to believe that Dale Conway was much more than a simple gambler. In fact, Las Vegas Strike Force attorney Eric Johnson — who was acting as lead prosecutor in the case — flew to Salt Lake in May 1985 to plead that the government be allowed to retain as evidence $75,179 in cash seized in the January raid of Dale Conway. Johnson noted that Conway’s money had been hidden in coat pockets and inside a box tied so a rope behind the furnace wall. "I don’t think this is normal operating procedure for individuals who are trying to use their money in a legal manner," Johnson told the judge. 

Johnson also said, "This is not your typical bookmaking operation, your Honor." And he said: "You’re talking about over a thousand hours of tapes that have to be listened too. You’re talking 216,000 pages of computer printouts that have to be reviewed." And he said: "We believe that bookmakers from coast to coast in a number of states have been involved in this. It’s set up like a corporation. If your Honor would like, I can even show a chart demonstrating the vast complexity of this case." 

The judge declined to view the chart. Is was obvious that the strength of Eric Johnson’s argument that day — and the strength of the case itself — was that the government was going to expose and arrest a national network of illegal bookmakers. Too many times to count, Eric Johnson referred to Dale Conway as a bookmaker. He said Conway was just one of the many bookmakers involved in this investigation. He made it sound as though, once the government had learned so make sense of all she information is had seized, it would become easier to apprehend and bring to justice all future bookmakers. 

"This case is complex and mammoth in proportions," Johnson told U.S. District Judge Bruce S. Jenkins in Salt Lake that day. 

The judge asked many questions, and listened to Eric Johnson’s answers, and then he ordered that the $75,179 be returned, along with stock certificates and other seized monies. Five years later, Dale Conway wonders when the rest of his "bookmaking evidence" will be restored so him. "They even took my 12-year-old’s Dungeons & Dragons game," says Conway, "I guess because there's dice in that game, they called its ‘gambling device.’" 

When this matter is settled, he’d appreciate it if someone from the FBI would come by to fix the door. 

Project Layoff 
Some new bookies were in town, and they wanted to meet Billy Walters. So he came to the Desert Inn for lunch. The year was 1984. Waiting for him at the Desert Inn were Walters’ top associate, Glen Walker, and a common gambler known in town as Matius (Fat Matt) Marcus. There were also two other men whom Walters had never seen before. They introduced themselves as Danny Donnigan and John Cleary, though Glen Walker still wonders if those were real names. "I remember Danny Donnigan sitting there in his Brooks Brothers sweater," Walker says. "It didn’t seem right. These guys just didn’t fit in." 

The two men turned their attentions to the kingpin Billy Walters, asking him many questions as they buttered their bread. Which is the most efficient method so establish a betting line? How does a fellow handle layoff bets? Basically they wanted Billy Walters to tell them how to become bookmaker. 

Walters says he began by saying: "I’m not a bookmaker, but..." He gave them advice and drew them into further conversation, which is how he generally handles his suspicions. Later he asked to speak with Walker privately. Says Billy Walters: "I told Walker, I said. ‘These guys aren’t bookmakers. They don’t know what they’re talking about.’ I told Walker I would have nothing so do with it." 

In the parking lot Billy Walters says he found a Lincoln Mark IV with Louisiana plates. The two men had mentioned that they’d recently moved from Louisiana. Walters wrote down the license number and passed it onto a private detective. "Of course he couldn’t trace it anywhere," Walters says. "So that was it for me. I had no association wish them whatsoever." 

But Glen Walker could only envision pigeons and soft point spreads, easy money. He bet with the new bookmakers, and he was not the only one. Fat Mat and his preppy bookies were quickly able to establish business all over town. For all of their dumb innocence, they were very sure of themselves. Fat Matt could be found hanging out (literally) at Gary Austin's sports book on the strip, passing out business cards. He was so brazen that, had the thought had occurred to him, he might have placed an ad in the newspaper: "Fall Malt's Illegal Bookmakers! We Take Bets From Anyone!" Indeed, he and his partners showed no fear of the law whatsoever. 

It is amusing now to imagine the strategy sessions held at FBI headquarters in Las Vegas in January 1985, after 11 phone conversations between Glen Walker and the Marcus Sports Service had been intercepted. Special agent Thomas Noble sprang into action! He assigned other agents to investigate the illegal bookmaking operation; intelligence filtered in. The Marcus' group had swelled into one of the largest illegal bookmaking operations in the country, grossing as much as $2 million a week in bets. Their clients included associates of New York Mafia boss "Fat Tony" Salerno, and Chicago racketeer Tony Spilotro, who was betting them for upwards of $50,000 per week. But Noble's chief interest in Matt Marcus was his association with the Computer Group. 
"Intercepted conversations indicate that the Waiters-Walker bookmaking ring operation uses this [Marcus] bookmaking operation on a regular basis to place what are believed to be layoff bets in violation of Title 18. United States Code. Sections 1955, 162(c) and 1952(d)," wrote Noble in the FBI affidavit, before his men went after Matt Marcus and tried to shut him down. 

And so, on Jan. 19, 1985, on the eve of the Super Bowl, several FBI rents raided the Marcus Sports service. Perhaps they even broke down some doors. Certainly their firearms were loaded and ready. They raided the illegal bookmakers like they had never been raided before. Meanwhile, the men who worked with Matt Marcus sat in chairs and crossed their legs, perhaps smirking to each other from time to time. 

Undaunted by the FBI, the Marcus Spans Service continued to accept bets for several months more. Then one day a pair of angry bettors marched into the office and demanded money they thought they had coming. They might as well have tried to get a refund from, say. the Internal Revenue Service. In other words. they did not come away with their money. Nonetheless, they had guns. Real guns, loaded with real bullets. The men behind the Marcus Sports Service were scared almost to death. They closed down their office shortly thereafter and went back to the Foley Federal Building at 300 Las Vegas Blvd., where they resumed their normal duties as agents for, yes, the Internal Revenue Service. The Brooks Brothers colleagues of Fat Matt Marcus had been nothing more than governmental meter maids. The Marcus Sports Service was their brilliant "sting" operation, with which the IRS had hoped to catch Billy Welters and other gamblers. 
It seems now that the IRS probably should have shared its plans with the FBI. Perhaps then this peculiar business of the FBI raiding the IRS could have been avoided. "We knew upfront about that," special agent Noble says today. "We knew what it was. If you look carefully at the warrants, you'll see that we knew. We don't operate in a vacuum."

The FBI now says that it went forward with the raid in order to give the IRS bookmaking operation more credibility in the streets. In layman's terms, one government agency raided another government agency in order to convince the criminals that the other government agency was not in fact a government agency, but was rather an illegal operation that happened to be run like a government agency. 

When the Las Vegas Sun broke news of the IRS scheme, more than four years after its demise, Nevada's U.S. Senators, Harry Reid and Richard Bryan, asked to see the records and reports of the undercover bookmakers, to learn what good had come from the sting. In his reply. IRS Commissioner Frederick Goldberg informed the senators that the records of Project Layoff, as it was named, were no longer available. They had been "disposed of." Destroyed would have been a stronger term, and just as accurate. Goldberg was able to inform the senators that the project had operated at a loss of $577,770, which in 1985 amounted to the federal income taxes paid by 350 average Americans. 

Among the losses were $75,000 in uncollected gambling debts. The rumor in Las Vegas is that these were accrued by the notorious Tony Spilotro who - as it turned out was simply continuing his career of stiffing the IRS. A few months later, Spilotro was found buried in an Indiana cornfield, although no one believes the IRS would have anything to do with that - at least not as long as Tony was in red to the government for $75,000 

The IRS is facing two Congressional investigations, and its Nevada office has been shaken up severely. But it's not as if the 1R5 is going to have to go through a terrible punishment, like, say, an audit. "The IRS owed me something like $10,000 when I was done betting them," Glen Walker says sadly. "I asked if I could get it written off of my taxes."

Reload · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

Thanks for the post, Shrink. I always enjoy hearing about this stuff.

The only real site I ever looked at with info about Walters and the computer group was Billy Walters.

The Devil · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

DR. IVAN MINDLIN WAS A CHARACTER.........I REMEMBER SEEING HIM ONE DAY IN MARGARITA IN A TEE SHIRT, BERMUDA SHORTS AND CROCIDILLE SKIN COWBOY BOOTS.......WHAT A SIGHT........

BUT LET ME SAY THE MAN WAS AS SHARP AS ANYONE I HAVE EVER MET..........

rainbow · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

The Devil said:
DR. IVAN MINDLIN WAS A CHARACTER.........I REMEMBER SEEING HIM ONE DAY IN MARGARITA IN A TEE SHIRT, BERMUDA SHORTS AND CROCIDILLE SKIN COWBOY BOOTS.......WHAT A SIGHT........

BUT LET ME SAY THE MAN WAS AS SHARP AS ANYONE I HAVE EVER MET..........

STILL IS...

BETenomics · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

look at Catalinas lines and the testament to his greatness is right there:cocktail

JamaicaJoe · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

I have read this article a 1000 times. And everytime i see it I raign.

Bruce Dickinson · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

jimmy sneakers was the smartest one in the group....

goddamit I miss playing with him.

BETenomics · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

The Centuries Greatest Professional Handicappers!

Baseball:

McNeil: Alias Dillinger/Mac. Chicago, Mathematics Professor. He'd Bust You Out On All Propositions & Send You Home COD! Specialty, New York Wiseguys who thought that Mac was soft pickings.
Jerry (Zorro) Zarrowitz: Caesars Palace Founder. Cool Operator. Top Baseball Handicapper.

College Basketball:

Hymie (The Ace): The Only True "Lock" I Ever Met! Never had A Losing Season over a 40 Year Career!
Morris (Shoebox) Brotson: Fearless, Daring, and he was an original. Ran a close second to the Ace!

College Football:

Ed (Kentucky) Kerr: Sometimes, You'd Think He Had Tomorrow's Newspaper Today. Riverboat Gambler. Played Sky High, to your limit!
Boston Smith: SW Conference Champion! A Bookmakers Nightmare.
Andy California: Pac 10 & Far West Genius! He'd bust the line.

Hockey:

Curley. Toronto, Canada: 72% Win Record Over 20 Years. Curly, knew his Hockey like no one else ever has.

Boxing:

Bob Martin: Washington DC & Las Vegas. High Roller. Smooth Operator. Big Balls. At Times, too big!
Bill Baxter: Sharpie, Low Profile. Keeps on ticking

All (4) Seasons:

Billy (The Computer) Walters: Unbeatable! You Name The Game, He'll Knock You Out if you're not careful! Very careful. The Casino too. Just ask Steve Wynn?

The Devil · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

BettingProphets said:
The Centuries Greatest Professional Handicappers!

College Basketball:

Hymie (The Ace): The Only True "Lock" I Ever Met! Never had A Losing Season over a 40 Year Career!

Morris (Shoebox) Brotson: Fearless, Daring, and he was an original. Ran a close second to the Ace!

SHOEBOX WAS SO GOOD IN THE SEVENTIES MOST NEW YORK BOOKS WENT TO 6/5 (-1.20) ON COLLEGE BASKETS......WASN'T UNCOMMON FOR HIS GAMES TO MOVE 5 POINTS.......WE HATED TO HEAR, SHOEBOX IS ON XXXXX................

dingo · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

they should have a hall of fame for men like this for they truly are freaks of nature in there speciality

ZZ CREAM · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

BettingProphets said:
The Centuries Greatest Professional Handicappers!

Baseball:

McNeil: Alias Dillinger/Mac. Chicago, Mathematics Professor. He'd Bust You Out On All Propositions & Send You Home COD! Specialty, New York Wiseguys who thought that Mac was soft pickings.

Jerry (Zorro) Zarrowitz: Caesars Palace Founder. Cool Operator. Top Baseball Handicapper.

College Basketball:

Hymie (The Ace): The Only True "Lock" I Ever Met! Never had A Losing Season over a 40 Year Career!

Morris (Shoebox) Brotson: Fearless, Daring, and he was an original. Ran a close second to the Ace!

College Football:

Ed (Kentucky) Kerr: Sometimes, You'd Think He Had Tomorrow's Newspaper Today. Riverboat Gambler. Played Sky High, to your limit!

Boston Smith: SW Conference Champion! A Bookmakers Nightmare.

Andy California: Pac 10 & Far West Genius! He'd bust the line.

Hockey:

Curley. Toronto, Canada: 72% Win Record Over 20 Years. Curly, knew his Hockey like no one else ever has.

Boxing:

Bob Martin: Washington DC & Las Vegas. High Roller. Smooth Operator. Big Balls. At Times, too big!

Bill Baxter: Sharpie, Low Profile. Keeps on ticking

All (4) Seasons:

Billy (The Computer) Walters: Unbeatable! You Name The Game, He'll Knock You Out if you're not careful! Very careful. The Casino too. Just ask Steve Wynn?

I would think you would have to include Chuck in the NBA!

beenthere · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

100,000 to new york bettors,they still live the walk.

beenthere · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

A friend of mine back then thought it was impossible to beat sports.He scored 1600 a perfect score on the sats.Finally,he said I was wrong these guys are the real thing.

The Devil · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

ANY OF YOU GUYS REMEMBER JEFF (MR X) WITH BASKET TOTALS AROUND THE TIME OF THE DETROIT TIME KEEPER FIASCO????

HOW ABOUT THE RUN STEVE Z HAD IN BASKETS 20 YEARS AGO..........

BETenomics · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

Bobby Bryde for pucks has to be there as well

Bagiant · Feb 13, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

I used to take action from a guy who was associated with the Computer Boys. He was Bruce Weinstein and his partner was Cowboy! He wanted me to come to Vegas with him when he left Tarzana, CA. This guy had the Boys plays before God got the news and we kept on cutting his limits so we could bet the games for ourselves! When I first took his action I couldn't believe that anyone could beat the spread, but these guys showed me different. Cleaned up on his bets!

Unfortunately his girlfriend wound up killing him in Las Vegas, and tried to bury him in the desert! They found him about 9 months later! What a shame. He had a daughter down here in San Diego who he loved dearly!

Hitman26 · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

thejdog said:
jimmy sneakers was the smartest one in the group....

goddamit I miss playing with him.

I wish I held the movie rights to his story.

Horseshoe · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

What about Jamie, Buddy, or Herbie for College Hoops?

BB for a Halftime category?

Doc M and his best friend Lil' Lunatic for College Football?

roach23 · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

You fellas are naming all these names, how about some stories about these guys??

IHaveBeenAround · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

thejdog said:
jimmy sneakers was the smartest one in the group....

goddamit I miss playing with him.

Which one in the story is Jimmy Sneakers? How can he be the smartest person in the group he isn't even mentioned in the article.

rainbow · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

stuckinvegas said:
I used to take action from a guy who was associated with the Computer Boys. He was Bruce Weinstein and his partner was Cowboy! He wanted me to come to Vegas with him when he left Tarzana, CA. This guy had the Boys plays before God got the news and we kept on cutting his limits so we could bet the games for ourselves! When I first took his action I couldn't believe that anyone could beat the spread, but these guys showed me different. Cleaned up on his bets!

Unfortunately his girlfriend wound up killing him in Las Vegas, and tried to bury him in the desert! They found him about 9 months later! What a shame. He had a daughter down here in San Diego who he loved dearly!

THATS NOT TRUE THEY FOUND HIS BODY 9 MONTHS LATER, I WAS IN LAS VEGAS WHEN THAT HAPPENED, I RATHER NOT GO INTO THE STORY,I MET BRUCE THROUGH LARRY DELMAR, HE WAS REAL CLOSE WITH HIM...

rainbow · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

IHaveBeenAround said:
Which one in the story is Jimmy Sneakers? How can he be the smartest person in the group he isn't even mentioned in the article.

HE WASN?T...

rainbow · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

The Devil said:
ANY OF YOU GUYS REMEMBER JEFF (MR X) WITH BASKET TOTALS AROUND THE TIME OF THE DETROIT TIME KEEPER FIASCO????

HOW ABOUT THE RUN STEVE Z HAD IN BASKETS 20 YEARS AGO..........

1992 WAS THE BEST YEAR STEVIE Z HAD IN HIS LIFE, THAT WAS THE ONLY TIME I SEEN THE SPREADS MOVE 1.5 AT NIGHT AFTER THE LINE WAS SETTLED, THE GAMES WAS OVER BEFORE THEY PLAYED THEM FOR HIM THAT YEAR...

rainbow · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

The Devil said:
SHOEBOX WAS SO GOOD IN THE SEVENTIES MOST NEW YORK BOOKS WENT TO 6/5 (-1.20) ON COLLEGE BASKETS......WASN'T UNCOMMON FOR HIS GAMES TO MOVE 5 POINTS.......WE HATED TO HEAR, SHOEBOX IS ON XXXXX................

THEY CALLED SHOEBOX MR X IN LOUISIANA...

msftkid · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

I love these discussios and stories. I have not been exposed to these gentlemen and thier stories are fascinating. Thanks for the posts!

The Devil · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

RAINBOW,

SHOEBOX WAS THE BEST AT ALL THE OFF GAMES.......BACK THEN THERE WERE VERY FEW GAMES ON THE BOARD.......ONLY THE MAJOR CONFERENCE TEAMS WHEN THEY PLAYED EACH OTHER AND THE IVY LEAGUE TEAMS WERE ALWAYS ON THE BOARD.......

YOU COULDN'T GET A DREXEL-ODU GAME.....HOFSTRA AND IONA??? FOR GET ABOUT THEM.........GONZAGA, W MICH??? WHO WERE THEY......

BUT A LOT OF BOOKS MADE THEIR OWN LINES OUT OF THE GOLD SHEETS POWER RATINGS, GAVE THEM OUT FOR NICKLES...........SHOEBOX ATE EVERYONE OF THOSE GUYS UP......

SCORES??? ONLY WAY TO GET SCORES WAS LISTEN TO THE RADIO OR CALL THE INFAMOUS JK SPORTS WIRE.........WHO BY THE WAY WERE THE BIBLE AT THE TIME AS FAR AS SCHEDULES WENT........WHICH BRINGS UP ANOTHER STORY TO FOLLOW.............

The Devil · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

RAIN,

DO YOU REMEMBER THE FIASCO THE YEAR JIM FEIST FIRST CAME OUT WITH HIS SCHEDULE?????

WE ALWAYS ORDERED FROM JK SPORTS SCHEDULE........IT WAS LIKE $100 A YEAR FOR 6 SCHEDULES FOR ALL THE SPORTS.........SO WE ALWAYS ORDERED LIKE 100 SCHEDULES TO GIVE TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND USE FOR OURSELVES.......THIS WAS THE OFFICIAL ROTATION.....

ONE YEAR JIM FIEST DECIDED TO GO INTO THE SCHEDULE BUSINESS......HE MANAGED TO LOCK UP MOST OF THE VEGAS BOOKS..........JK SPORTS STILL HAD THE EAST COAST BOOKMAKERS.......ALL OF A SUDDEN GUYS WOULD CALL FOR A GAME AND YOU WOULD SAY GAME 11 IS 7 1/2......GUY WOULD SAY ARE YOU SURE XXXX HAS THE GAME 14.......THEN WE REALIZED WHAT WAS HAPPENING.........SO WE ORDERED FEISTS SCHEDULES AND HAD BOTH ON OUR DESKS WHEN WE WORKED, UNTIL FEIST WON OUT AND JK DISAPPEARED........

STRAISAND SANG IT BEST..............MEMORIES........

msftkid · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

I even remember the JK sports phone . You would have to listen to 5 minutes of commercials before you would get a west coast score!!!!! Remember the "Birds Eye" schedules ?

Almost Allright · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

Great great stories. A question if I may. Any syndicates today coming even close to what the computer group accomplished? I love this stuff. Devil, Rainbow you boys are a wealth of stories and knowledge.

ZZ CREAM · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

rainbow said:
1992 WAS THE BEST YEAR STEVIE Z HAD IN HIS LIFE, THAT WAS THE ONLY TIME I SEEN THE SPREADS MOVE 1.5 AT NIGHT AFTER THE LINE WAS SETTLED, THE GAMES WAS OVER BEFORE THEY PLAYED THEM FOR HIM THAT YEAR...

How many of you know who Stevie Z's partner was?

ZZ CREAM · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

ZZ CREAM said:
How many of you know who Stevie Z's partner was?

Hint: He is a famous poker player and it is NOT Doyle Brunson or his son.

THE SHRINK · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

Howie Leider

ZZ CREAM · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

THE SHRINK said:
Howie Leider

You're pretty sharp ! Not much of a speller though!:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool

THE SHRINK · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

ZZ CREAM said:
You're pretty sharp ! Not much of a speller though!:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool

I've been called worse...:+textinb3

Never claimed to be a good speller but I suspect very few would have gotten this one right...

I really had to think...

P.S. Do any of these names ring a bell, too?

Mike Schiklin, Micky Appleton, Steve Muller and Dave Gray??? :dancefool

P.S.

Howie was a clerk in an office and dead broke and was finding "outs" for the boys. Howie was just moving green for them and they hit lightening and a bottle. He got a piece of the action and had enough green to get him out of NY and get him where he is today!!!

THE SHRINK

ZZ CREAM · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

THE SHRINK said:
I've been called worse...:+textinb3

Never claimed to be a good speller but I suspect very few would have gotten this one right...

I really had to think...

P.S. Do any of these names ring a bell, too?

Mike Schiklin, Micky Appleton, Steve Muller and Dave Gray??? :dancefool

P.S.

Howie was a clerk in an office and dead broke and was finding "outs" for the boys. Howie was just moving green for them and they hit lightening and a bottle. He got a piece of the action and had enough green to get him out of NY and get him where he is today!!!

THE SHRINK

Good stuff Shrink.....most of us were destitute at least once, in my case it seems to be chronic. He and his mother and sisters made for a 'family affair' in New Yawk, alas, I did not know those names but may know their voices.....LOL.

The Devil · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

ZZ CREAM said:
How many of you know who Stevie Z's partner was?

I WOULD PICK A RAT.............LEDERER............

The Devil · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

OOPS I ANSWERED BEFORE I READ THE NEXT POST............

The Devil · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

THE SHRINK said:
I've been called worse...:+textinb3

Never claimed to be a good speller but I suspect very few would have gotten this one right...

I really had to think...

P.S. Do any of these names ring a bell, too?

Mike Schiklin, Micky Appleton, Steve Muller and Dave Gray??? :dancefool

P.S.

Howie was a clerk in an office and dead broke and was finding "outs" for the boys. Howie was just moving green for them and they hit lightening and a bottle. He got a piece of the action and had enough green to get him out of NY and get him where he is today!!!

THE SHRINK

I THINK YOU MEAN MIKE SCHICKMAN...........KNEW HIM IN NY AND REMEMBER WHEN THEY TOOK HIM DOWN........APPLETON??? I THINK YOU MEAN APPLEMAN......WAS A CUSTOMER OF MINE YEARS AGO..........I BELIEVE HE HAS A WSOP BRACELET..........STEVE MUELLER (HACKSAW)WAS WITH DOC MINDLIN FOR A WHILE (COULD STILL BE) AND IF YOU READ CONFESSIONS OF AN IVY LEAGUE BOOKMAKER, HE IS THE STAR CHARACTER.....DAVE GREY I DONT KNOW (BY THAT NAME ANYWAY) BUT 3 OUT OF 4 AINT BAD......

Horseshoe · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

Devil, I remember the Feist/JK schedule flap year, caused for some careful quoting and repeating of teams. I also remember all those NYC Outs making Gold Sheet/Sagarin numbers to the then-OTB/now-Added games.

Also, when Tark The Shark's UNLV teams were really strong, and everyone waited for the Outlaw lines, then carefully watching to see what BW and/or the rest of the LV Wiseguy community would do..

Hacksaw was hot in that era, so was Doc M and his College Football Parameters for numbers-buying..

Mickey Appleman..sharp Hoops capper

Orlando Larry..helluva Football capper.

The Devil · Feb 14, 2007

Re: THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

REMEMBER ONE DAY APPLEMAN CALLED AND SAID WHAT DO YOU HAVE MONTE.......I QUOTED HIM A LINE AND HE SAID GIVE ME MONTE FOR THE MAX.......

2 MINUTES LATER HE CALLED AND SAID WHAT DID I GIVE HIM.....I SAID YOU HAVE MONTEFUSCO FOR XXXXX............HE SAID I WAS FUCKING WITH YOU I WANTED TO SEE IF I COULD GET MONTE-AL (MONTREAL) PAST YOU............

THE HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER GROUP

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